IIT Alumni discuss PROs and CONs of IIT JEE - Feb 2010.
Why JEE should be
scrapped: ( Names with held)
What's the problem with having
one uniform engineering test for all aspiring engineers in the country? And
then the students get to select their institute based on the rank they get.
Like in the US. They have the SATs for under-grads and based on your score (and
your school marks), you get to choose from a Stanford/MIT at one end, to a
community college at the other. Or like the GRE for post-grads.
They shouldn't dilute the
standard of the test. That is what people like us need to ensure.
In any case, I don't think the
JEE is the holy cow it's made out to be. It's appalling the kind of students
that get selected based on the JEE today. And it's disgusting the way children
start the indoctrination from Class 8 now. Someone tells me it has become Class
7 in some places. How can a kid even know what s/he wants to do at that age?
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I am for a uniform entrance
exam for all engineering institutions, and I'd like the examination to be more
tuned to aptitude than ability to mug solutions. This exam can be set to a high
standard so that the right people come to the top and get selected in IITs.
Mind you, I am against people completing their engineering in IITs and
immediately jumping on to the MBA band wagon, with the correct aptitude tests,
these people can be weeded out of the IIT list.
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I am not all in favour of the
current JEE and I am all for its removal. However I am all for having a system
whereby IITs are able to get far more rounded students while maintaining the
transparency of JEE.
The current JEE has given rise
to coaching schools.
The prospective students start
working on getting admission from grade 9th or even earlier by staying away
from all other activities expected of a well rounded student.
Current JEE forces students
just to score high marks, but it does not test the creativity or original
thinking of the students.
The current JEE has helped
build a good brand image for IITs by giving admission purely based on merit.
But this so called merit has started to erode. In course of time old brand
image may not last.
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The statement that ".....
the dominance of JEE Coaching schools that deny poorer students access to IITs.
This is a genuine problem that needs to be addressed and JEE Format modified to
counter Coaching school dominance...."
The above oft-repeated
statement is a superficial statement and does not reflect truth.
All of us know how difficult
and expensive it is to put children in good schools. Even large cities have
very few good schools, as compared to the demand. How many of us have not
experienced the high-handedness of principals while giving admission ? (not
necessarily any unethical practice.). As we go to smaller cities and then towns
and smaller towns, the number of good schools decline further. Admission to
such schools itself is not easy. It is almost impossible for a son or daughter
of say, a hawker or a driver, (even if he were to afford the fee), to get
admitted, as these schools also look for parents background (and they even test
the children at that age of 2.5 to 4 years).
In addition, most of these
schools today cost a fair amount of fees right from nursery/KG onwards till
12th. Not many poor families can afford these fees, if by some miracle, they
were to get admitted to these schools.
Most of other schools are of
indifferent standard.
If one goes to villages, then the
situation is totally different, where 1 or 2 teachers with 2-3 rooms try and
teach children of all classes in all subjects.
In such scenario, what are the
chances of children from these schools to compete against the children of good
schools?
In fact the coaching classes
provide a leveling effect. After 10th
standard, if the students are
good (and determined), then they try to get into classes and can make up for
the vast difference in standards of the schools. It is difficult to imagine
this sitting in a rarefied place like Bangalore. But if you go to the coaching
centers of Kota, Bhillai etc, you can see not only higher middle class kids,
but also a huge number of students from ordinary background from small towns of
Bihar, UP, Assam, Jhakhand etc.
In financial terms, these
classes do charge a fee of around Rs 60,000 per year (for two years of 11th and
12th and the student also has to pay rent for a PG and mess charges. But then
this is much less then an outlay of around 50,000 plus required from nursery to
class12 for most good schools. Also, there are means by which this burden is
reduced - eg. scholarships provided
by classes, and support from
their near and dear ones when they find a sincere student. (In contrast, I
would like to be enlightened if any of the well known schools in Bangalore take poor children in
any proportion and then provide scholarships!!!).
I have observed this
personally in Kota over last 5 years.
Also, the teaching standards
at these classes are very high, so as to make up for the loss these poorer
children faced due to having gone through lower end schools in earlier years.
One pointer to this was recent
protest by Nitish Kumar when Mr. Sibbal mentioned about proposal to raise
minimum bar for IIT as 80% in 12th standard. Nitish Kumar explained that the
students from poor background in Bihar overcome their poor school system (where
they would find getting 80% with great difficulty), by attending coaching
classes in Bihar or outside.
The main issue with students
working very hard for JEE is not because of presence of coaching classes, but
due to (i) vast difference perceived by students between IITs and the next
category of colleges and (ii) the high ratio of applicants to seats.
Obviously the only real way is
to improve standards in other colleges so that students and parents do not
think of getting into IIT as a sole goal during their student life.
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I think common entrance test
for event 30-40 central govt. colleges would also be better JEE for IITs.
We can have common entrance
test for all 350 colleges. That does not mean the students from any state can
apply anywhere. Respective quotas would be adhered to.
So its just that have one
entrance exam, provide the student with a score and that is considered as
barometer as test score for all the colleges.
Making students appear for 4 -
5 exams just does not make sense.
So there is no point making
JEE better.
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Things are not much different
at AICTE, MHRD, IITs, Judicial or
Political front. Corruption,
nepotism etc. are rampant everywhere. One can judge from this basic fact that
JEE bunglings are making waves for the last 4 years, not a single voice is
heard; not a single step is taken to reform, forget about unearthing.
The irony of scrapping
JEE and having one common national exam is that it will be managed by HRD
where corruption is rampant ( eg AICTE) and exam papers
will be leaked out for a price.
Things are not much different
at IITs too, at least with all those who command power, money and/or resources;
others are least bothered about what is happening in their neighborhood.
Therefore, my humble
suggestion is that the single examination should be conducted with
transparency and accountability.
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I am not sure whether this is
a forum to express my views.
JEE has started destroying the
childhood of many kids - they start
preparing for JEE from 6/7
grade onwards, seriously. At the end of it all, IITs select only 1% of
the applicants.
The remaining 99% of
"rejected" candidates form the workforce of India. There cannot
be a bigger unfair system.
For the country of India's
size, the number of IITs available or those that can be created in the
conceivable future will be inadequate. It is time IITs help improve the
levels of engineering education in the country, offered through about 3,000 engineering
colleges. IITs cannot do this so long as they are too involved in
undergraduate education and related activities, such as JEE. IITs should
work to better the standards of engineering colleges. IITs should use
their influence to remove the engineering colleges from the clutches of
organisations like AICTE - IITs are not even trying! IITs should only
have M.Tech and Ph.D programmes.
One of the main objectives of
these postgraduate programmes should be to create good teachers for engineering
colleges. IITs should use their
influence to help improve the ecosystem in engineering colleges (salaries,
infrastructure, etc), so that good people come
forward once again to take up
teaching positions.
In view of the above argument,
my vote is for the abolishment of JEE and also the undergraduate education at
IITs.
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I have mixed feelings about
this whole issue. While it is true that the JEE has been responsible for the
past successes of IITs, it seems to have produced a cottage industry of its own
which is about 1% or so efficient; The 99% who go to these coaching classes and
don't get into IIT have nothing to show for their years of hard work and
neglect of their studies. (of course I made up the numbers, but the truth is
perhaps not too far). Looking at the example of the SAT, I don't see why a well
constructed common test cannot be used by all colleges. This way, kids don't
gamble with their future, and other schools might well accept someone who has a
low rank on the JEE. And the US higher education is not exactly falling apart,
so there is nothing inherently wrong with this idea.
I do agree, though, that the
govt. should get out of this business, and let one or more private
organizations manage this test; Best of both worlds would be for the IITs
themselves to throw open the JEE scores to all colleges (perhaps it is
happening now?), administer the test several times a year and make this the
Indian SAT. This will avoid the obvious downsides of this plan (Govt.
corruption, and the possibility of the careers of students being ruined by one
bad test).
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Why JEE Should Not be scrapped ( Names with held)
It will take away the shine of
IIT Brand nationally and internationally built up so meticulously over
the years by the IIT undergrads.
• The IIT
brand brilliance took its shine mainly from the tough questionnaire and
examination schedule followed by the IIT JEE board
• Good
students took it as a matter of pride to do well in IITJEE
• It is the
still the toughest exam in this category for students seeking admission in
Engineering colleges in India
• Good
students opted for this exam first and later to other entrance exams
• The IIT
entrance exam is well known even in Indian villages in far off places states
like Himachal and Bihar.
• The
examination model and course content caters to all types of school exams like
CBSE etc...
• The exam
pattern has been so unique that even advanced countries like Japan and China
waned to implement the same pattern in their countries.
• The exam
pattern sits well with the examination pattern followed by other famous
university exam patterns like Harvard, MIT etc...
•
Examination pattern has been modified well over the fifty
ears and requires no more reforms except the examination course content
• It affords
an all India competition for rich, poor and backward classes an advantage which
no other exam does be it for Birla, Regional engineering colleges, all
India engineering exam etc..
• To avoid
corruption in working out cut off marks a central committee comprising of trust
worthy IIT professors picked from the complete gamut of IITs
• The
selection and counseling of candidates be left to this
central committee
• The
present rotation of IITJEE examination schedule by each IIT be scarped
and a central committee be formed comprising of trust worthy IIT
professors picked from the complete gamut of IITs
• The
committee members should be conditionally IIT students having passed the IITJEE
in the last fifty years
• The
examination board committee should be autonomous and report directly the HRD
ministry
PS: there are always chaps in
this world who are out to undo the good. The Deputy director of IIT M himself
has offered for scrapping the exam. I am sure Deputy director may have never
appeared in IITJEE exam and has probably recommended its stay. You should not
be surprised !. The ministry looks lovingly at this recommendation and says go
ahead with all gusto since it has come from the very IIT brand itself. In Hindi
" La kulhadi mar " or " aa bail mujhe mar "
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1. JEE is the life
line of IITs.
2. Its flaws,
defects should be corrected not JEE to be eliminated.
3. We treat the
organ which has problem, we do not cut 'em off.
4. It is JEE which
makes IITs' reputation. You can't take the lifeblood out of a system. You can't
substitute human blood with monkey's saying they both are primates.
5. JEE is an exam
to pick the exceptionals and hence it’s an exception rather than a general
rule. This makes IITs an exception and it should be treated that way
6. Nowhere the
government controlled colleges have done good. Once controlled it can only go
down. examples are DU, JNU and BHU which have lost their sheen
7. Once under gov
control, there may not be any legitimate reason to have exam conducting body
selected only from IITs and if one has not been in the IIT system, will not
understand what it means
8. A
defunct/malacious rule/procedure of JEE system should be corrected and not the
system be abolished
9. Gov and IIT
should make the system more and more transparent. IITs are known for that.
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As you correctly pointed out
it is high time that we drop JEE in present form and one need not shed tears
for that. There is an urgent need to get rid of coaching schools. In fact
in recent years much has been written against the JEE testing which only prepares
the students to appear for examinations. Kanpur IIT professors have been
in the forefront and they have been writing many thoughtful articles on it.
I am copying an article I wrote critical of JEE in 2007 soon after our
Ruby Union and I came under attack from many sides.
IITs need a system to select
students after replacing JEE. When we joined IIT there was no JEE. They had a
system of selecting top ranking students from each state. National integration
was a big thing at that time. Since those were the early days, that
system worked for some time with some efficacy. I am not sure the system chose
the best and the brightest. I suspect it did not. I think around 1963/64
they started having entrance examination of some sort. As years went by
the questions started to get tough and coaching classes became the norm. Now
its usefulness has gone and now we need to develop a better system which has to
be objective while at the same time does not encourage coaching schools and
also it takes into consideration such soft criteria like volunteering,
communication skills, creative thinking etc. The system has to be
foolproof which cannot be manipulated to use connection and bribes. Can we
develop such a system? Even if some % of students get in because of
influence, but most students meet the criteria mentioned above should we go for
such a system? This is essentially a multiple criteria problem where we
need to optimize many criteria. The current JEE meets just one criterion of
objectivity and does not lend itself to manipulation. Still we hear that some did
manage to manipulate it and some got through despite poor marks.
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I very much endorse your
sentiments. My memory is fading but my JEE 1968 was a pure horror movie
classic. I STILL do not know what I did in my MPC papers. The questions might
as well have been in Greek or Latin. I had no comprehension. However, one
characteristic I had then and still do, is to interpret an unfathomable problem
best I can and solve it using what I know. I guess I received partial credit
for my answers, as opposed to zero credit had I skipped them, and these added
up to my eventual placement around All India 700 (?) of the 1500 (?) or so
placed that year.
The nightmarish reputation of
the JEE is what attracts a pool of interested applicants, the vast majority of
whom would probably place in the top 10% of their qualifying board (12th grade,
+2 etc) school class. In other words, the board exam is the "heats",
while JEE is the actual competition. This would definitely get diluted if the
JEE were abolished. The hurdle in the proposed new exam that would replace the
JEE will not be as high. It has to be set to be "doable" by the new
set of say top 25-30% of all 12th grades interested in pursuing engineering.
Having said this, the JEE has
become a racket in recent years. Some places and some states (that I do not
wish to name) scoop up a ridiculously high % of the selected candidates, thanks
to their access to the JEE classes. And those classes, based on my familiarity
with a few cases from recent years, are nothing short of child abuse. In one
instance, the kid attended a prelim coaching class at 3 am or so just in order
to get into the best coaching class for JEE, reputed to have a very high %
final selection. In my own time, my classmates from Chennai had JEE advantages
that I did not even hear about, let alone have an opportunity to access, from
my (then) small town. These issues must be addressed. Fortunately, we have the
medium that is ever-expanding in its reach and capabilities.
IMO, one great contribution of
PANIIT to the coming generations of young Indians would be funding the creation
and launch of Internet-based JEE coaching classes, reasonably priced (not free,
it will not be appreciated), accessible from most places in India. Existing
capabilities even allow for fully functional audio+video content and multiple
language explanations of concepts. Such a resource would enable the vast, very
smart yet access-denied population of youngsters to properly prepare for the
JEE. That should be the goal, rather than do away with the JEE. This needs to
be impressed on the HRD minister.
JEE is one reason the IIT
entrance exam attracts a pool of students interested in engineering and already
performing very well in their classes (12th grade etc). It is sort of like a
medal run at the Olympics where the heats are used to qualify the runners.
There is more to an IIT
education than passing the JEE and attending classes. The synergy of putting
together a bunch of proven bright youngsters can yield lasting benefits.
One reason for the phenomenal
success of the IIT Brand is the tough entrance process.
Replacing the tough JEE with a
common engineering exam will certainly weaken the challenge and the hurdle. A
large country like India needs to have a mechanism to identify top notch talent
that has the best aptitude for engineering.
However, the present JEE has
some serious deficiencies. It unfairly denies a chance to youngsters without
access/resources to JEE coaching. Likewise, (I maybe incorrect here, recalling
from my own JEE long ago), it is not fair to students who did not study in the
English medium. Access and resources may both be effectively addressed in the
present environment by setting up an Internet-based reasonably priced coaching
facility. Those kids who still cannot afford it may be supported through
government scholarships and private sponsorships. The online environment lends
itself easily to coaching in multiple languages so that the bright youngster
may learn in the language of choice.
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It is heartening to see your
perseverance. It is an undeniable fact that each one of us who went
through the IIT system has enjoyed being an IITian, especially in front of the
family and friends. So we should certainly save the JEE.
I have a strong suspicion that
the software services sector that recruits a lot of engineers these days, does
not care where the students come from and they would like to improve the
overall quality rather than excellence, by broad basing the access to
facilities. Maybe there are exceptions.
My personal view is that
abolishing centers of excellence would help only in creation of better and
better slaves and not masters. The critical aspirational inputs would be
missing. No wonder no one is interested in creation of products and
services and systems but only in running them or helping others to run them!
We are indeed facing
Colonialisation 2.0, if I may use the phrase! I do understand that we are in an
interdependent world and we have to contribute and not merely enjoy the fruits
and hence I do believe that Indians have to rise up as a creative super power
in a positive way. Weeding out the servile attitudes amongst the
intelligentsia is very important and hence, we have to be able to oppose a
Sibal or even a Manmohan and have our say!
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Why the JEE should not
be scrapped:
1. The purpose of IITs
should be a little bit different from those of other engineering colleges and
hence a different entrance examination.
2. The brand value of
IITs has been created, to a large extent, by the JEE as the JEE has acted as a
good filter. So we should not fix something that isn't broke.
3. Aping a more
prosperous society like USA sans their resources, would only put India back.
We need to be able to "Leap-frog" and having a different system
of driving our society "up" the technology track is very much needed.
4. There is a need for
an aspirational target for all. It is better to improve the IITs working
so that it becomes equal to the brand image it has come to represent. This
includes a critical review of the reservation policies, funding, meritocracy,
etc. Do we have reservation in Indian cricket team? If not then why
in education if we expect performance and excellence. (Sorry for digression
here.)
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Why HRD is hell bent on
scrapping JEE:
1. They think that aping
US would be seen as positive inside the Congress hierarchy(??), and most
politicians have no idea of meritocracy and the so-called young Turks, the
scions of yester year politicians, have all studied in US schools based on
non-merit admissions. I am sure none of them would disclose their GRE or
GMAT marks!!
2. A common test can be
diluted and controlled from outside the IIT.
3. Any centralization
would bestow increased power to the central government.
4. One more diversion
from the actual issues to keep the "Janta" busy and the youngsters
hopes up - they can say that they have brought IIT within the reach of common
public - though it already is!!
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why JEE should not be scrapped
an entrance exam, in
principle, is the fairest way of giving the most meritocratic an even chance,
irrespective of pedigree of institution, economic status, social background
indeed if the current method allows for any form of "beating the
system", then what is essential is to plug the loophole but not throw the
baby out with the bathwater !
Humanity is yet to come out
(unfortunately) with a better way of testing knowledge accumulated by an
individual and his ability to apply it in a short manageable period of time,
other than by way of an examination. This is unfortunate but true.
Given this, a system of
testing the accumulated knowledge and providing a fair entry into a limited
number of academic seats available is unavoidable. One may argue about using
the historic performance but again unfortunately, standards vary, and even more
importantly, what we do know for certain is the level of knowledge needed to be
able to go through the IIT academic rigour, post entrance.
universities elsewhere ... the
top ones at least, do expect candidates to sit for entrance exam such as SATS,
GRE, or GMAT. I can't see why IITs should be any different if they wish to
remain among the academically accomplished universities !
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1. Discarding the
JEE because some coaching classes have managed to beat the system, is like
throwing out the baby with the bath water :
2. Modify JEE to
frustrate the coaching classes, don’t discard it.
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1. Without JEE it can't
be understood how to separate the students with a problem solving ability from
the rest.
2. It was JEE's
question style which was then observed to all other engineering colleges
entrance exam.
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IITs are IITs not just because
of IITs alone.
IITs are IITs because of
IITians.
1. IIT-JEE is the
process which selects IITians.
2. To separate
wheat from chaff, you do need a strong separating procedure. There are two
kinds of engineers in the country - IITians and Non-IITians.
3. IIT-JEE is not
just an entrance examination. It's a transformational process of 2 years
whereby an adolescent with a spark, tastes a challenge and brings him up to the
intended levels of competence.
*** Personally, I feel that the
drive to remove IIT-JEE is driven from bigger intentions:
a) The Brand IIT is the vocal
and powerful strength of India in modern day global economy.
b) The rise of the IITians and
thereby of India (indirectly though) is sending shivers down the spine of
Western Establishments. Dilute the brand, break them apart.
c) The policy makers who are
largely IAS officers, want to retain their hegemony. They feel at odds in front
of IITians who can be good at everything because of their basic training and
IIT-JEE is the process which had given that intellectual idealism.
d) The prestige and
transparency which IIT-JEE enjoys has to be diluted in order to open channels
for private universities and utterly commercialize the higher-education system.
The way increasing the fee of IITs during M M Joshi's regime was a mechanism of
increasing the fee in private techno-managerial institutions. You need to
dilute and wreck an establishment which has awe and reverence in public eye,
and then make your way out.
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1. Original five IITs
were operated in joint collaboration with UNESCO, USA, UK, West Germany and
Russia making them world class. IITs had the best campuses, best Laboratories,
best work shops and attracted the best teachers from all over India (also
highly paid those days) to teach the best of the best amongst lakhs & Lakhs
of students nation wide, selected through a flawless and fair JEE.
2. Diamonds: IIT’s picked the best uncut
diamonds amongst the national treasures and cut and polished them over five
(later four) long years making them priceless creating a Global demand.
3. 90’000 students ( I
am not sure how many B.Techs out of 175000 IITians ) had to clear the tough JEE
to qualify to be trained at the five top IITs in the last 50 years.
4. Scrap JEE, and
replace it with a Common national exam, B.Tech Degree will drop in value
overnight and in a matter of years the IIT Brand will vanish and good faculty
will also leave for greener pastures.
5. Key Ingredient: The Key Ingredient to
IIT success is the quality of the student intake who perform best in JEE every
year.
6. Flaws in JEE : It appears that JEE
standards have been compromised by the very people meant to guard the system.
The system is not at fault but people who violated ethics. Should JEE be
scrapped or should the people who violated the rules be brought to task and JEE
fortified further, is the million dollar question. Can we cut the nose off to
spite the face ? Can we throw the baby away with the bath water.
7. Coaching Schools: Teaching in high
schools fell very short of the standards required to succeed in JEE. This gave
rise to coaching schools to meet a demand from students determined to get into
IITs and parents willing to spend big money demanded by coaching schools.
Coaching schools did nothing wrong and nothing illegal. Half the nation
sees the coaching schools as evil entities preventing students from the poorer
sector from succeeding. The other view is that the coaching schools in fact are
serving the nation by preparing capable students for JEE. One way to address
this problem would be to give coaching schools the recognition they deserve
allowing coaching school to become High Schools. If this happens these very
same coaching schools will out perform all public and private high schools
nationally in the long run. The same coaching schools based on excellence at
teaching will also become icons like IITs providing highly trained minds to
enter Universities. Once coaching schools become recognised / accredited as
high schools meeting national criteria we will have no one to blame for the
quality of students who get into IITs by clearing JEE.
8. Current students lack creativity: This
is what I have heard from many faculty members at IITs. If you are an outsider
you have to accept this statement from faculty as gospel . Yet if we think
through carefully all factors affecting current crop of students at IIT.
How true is this statement is the question ?
9. In the 60’s 70’s and
80’s students joined IITs to become engineers and we did. The few who were not
happy to continue as engineers did their MBA’s and a good percentage went
abroad to do their masters and doctorate and have becomes academics in US
universities.. This was again supply meeting demand in USA for Indian students
to fill up post graduates seats in USA, seats that locals did not feel excited
about.
10.
90’s
started the Dot.com boom and B Tech students were lured by opportunity to work
in the IT & Finance sector and to earn big bucks. Students were using B
Tech as a stepping stone to a successful career in IT & Finance Industry.
Engineering was furthest in their minds. This meant that the students were not
interested in the least bit in what was being taught by faculty members. The
lack of interest in civil, metallurgy, Mech, elec and aero engg etc etc was
wrongly seen by faculty as students lacking creativity. The truth may be they
could not be bothered with what was being taught. They were focused on teaching
themselves programming in the hostels.
11.
B.
Tech had ceased to be an engineering degree to the majority of students who
were eyeing lucrative jobs in the IT or the Finance sector after
completing MBA.
12.
To
say that current crop of IIT students lack creativity cannot be true. If it is
true then JEE failed to select creative students. Not the fault of coaching schools
is it ?
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Thanks for your efforts in
e-networking the IIT alumni for so many years and reaching out to everyone on
such important issues.
When I was doing research for
my second IIT book, I had read the "2004 IIT
Review" report. As you know, the "IIT
Act" states that every ten years or so, the President of India (as
the "Visitor") must ask for a review of the IIT system. The 2004 Review was the fourth such review
and it was the first time that the JEE system was reviewed, and it came out
with full support for the JEE exam.
This
review was done by a committee of highly respected persons like Prof. Rama Rao,
former Vice Chancellor, University of Hyderabad, R. Chidambaram, then Principal
Scientific Advisor; Dr G. Mehta, Director Indian Institute of Science; Dr
S.K.Joshi, National Physical Laboratory; A. Mahindra, Chairman Mahindra &
Mahindra Ltd; and C.K.Birla, Chairman Hindustan Motors, and they had concluded
that
- The system which has been
put into place to conduct the JEE exam should NOT be disturbed
- A group be formed of senior
IIT professors who have been associated with the JEE to look into some reforms
(online JEE exams etc)
I am quoting some words of
praise from this committee
- JEE is
"singularly responsible for accomplishing the brand image of India.”
- "at one time, the ICS
and later the IAS examinations enjoyed a great reputation and those that
withstood the pressure and succeeded in the selection.. shone as visionary
builders of our institutions” and that JEE has eclipsed these and other competitive
exams and made the IITs "a cradle
for India’s future leaders.”
I assume the MHRD is in the
process of implementing these recommendations and hoping it will constitute a
"JEE review commitee" as suggested by this report. My suggestion is
that besides IIT professors, the JEE review committee also include some voices
of the alumni (such as you)..
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Why JEE should not be scrapped ?
1) It is probably the most
competitive exam in the world and has proved itself, given the phenomenal
success of IITians the world over. What more reason is needed ?
2) Replacing it by a common
exam just wont work. The exams needed to separate out the top 1% of students,
and all of 100% of students have to be radically different, and one size fits
all just wont do the job as well as the JEE has been doing.
3) The problems of the JEE
(corruption, fixing things etc)
have to be dealt with
stringently and the guilty punished. Throwing the baby with the bath water is
just not the solution.
4) IITs, institutes
based on merit, and JEE the exam which determines who has that merit, is
India's last hope (to fix this country).
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My reasons for why IIT - JEE
should not be abolished are along the same lines as my earlier post to you.
1) All the original IITs were
put up, obtaining aid from major industrialized nations.
2) We can make the assumption
that the IITs represent the best in engineering education in India today.
3) This being the case, the
IITs need to set the standards for top tier engineering education.
4) The other top engineering
colleges can attach themselves to IIT - JEE, thus converting the exam into a
common engineering entrance exam.
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Why JEE should not be abolished.
1. Without a common
exam, properly run, by the stakeholders who are IITS themselves, there is
no way to rate students covered by different systems in the country.
2. JEE tests ( it should
test as was in earlier years) basic knowledge and intelligence required to
study in IIT.
3. It tests ( it should
test as was in earlier years) the innovative approach to solve unknown problems
4. It tests ( it should
test as was in earlier years) basic knowledge in English language
5. Although I feel JEE
should not be abolished, the present method of setting of questions
should be abolished and replaced by new system.
6. A test which
determines winners with cut off as low as 5% to 30 % is not a test at
all. It is equally defective as everyone getting 100%.
7. The test should be
framed such that all those selected should score above 60%.
8. Today the professors
exhibit their intelligence by setting puzzle like questions which in a short
time a candidate can not answer unless vigorously trained earlier in similar
track.
9. Test the fundamentals
and make it simple. T
10.
There
is a need to innovate in the area of framing questions. Questions on general
knowledge on science subjects will bring out aptitude of students
The reasons you believe HRD wants to abolish JEE.
11.
HRD
has started the OBC quota system which will not succeed if you do not abolish
JEE.
12.
Abolishing
JEE will lead to malpractices in admission, leading to openings for corrupt
politicians .
13.
It
is a populist vote catching initiative to lure public as none likes to go
through the hard grind.
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I have difficulty coming up
with one liners for this. I have a single
reason which is multi-liner,
as follows.
1. IITs are meant
to cater to the brightest students.
2. IITs have to
select approximately 1% out of the 800,000 or so who will go on to do
engineering every year. Any exam that is meant to rank / select the 800,000
from the total college bound population will not work to select the top 1% out
of this, so a separate exam is needed.
3. Since
discrimination is needed at this level, the exam has to be made tougher so this
top 1% of the specturm is spread out sufficiently.
4. IITs have been
doing this (at smaller numbers of test takers - about 400,000 as of now) and as
a matter of academic freedom, IITs should continue to do this i.e. design and
run the exam that will select the input (academic freedom "who to teach
to").
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1. JEE is a great exam
and it should not be scrapped, there is no question about it.
2. But this JEE has been
watered down by the Kotas and Ramaiahs, just as much as someone publishing a
book on solutions to "Problems in Electrical Engineering" book by
Parker Smith. You will appreciate the relevance of Parker Smith if you
were also a EE student.
3. JEE has become a
matter of prestige for the parents than the students, so much so that, right
from primary school there are coaching centres that train the kids to solve
problems beyond their capacity. This is being done depriving them of simple
pleasures of childhood. I am 54 years of age and this kind of madness did
not exist at the time when we were students.
4. In the process, kids
with superior raw intelligence are not getting into IITs. Kids are ignoring the
12th class (PUC 2nd year) and concentrating only on JEE.
Here are my suggestions:
1. Have 80% as the
cut-off marks in 12th class / PUC 2nd year as the minimum qualifying marks for
JEE rank to be considered by IITs.
2. Conduct JEE as it is
now.
3. Allow only those
students who are appearing for the 12th class / PUC 2nd year in a given year to
appear for that year's JEE.
4. Do not allow students
who have passed 12th class / PUC 2nd year in the previous years. Do not allow
students who have done B.Sc., or Diploma or any other degree to appear for JEE.
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I joined IIT, Madras in 1963
after an interview process (in the 3-year B.Tech. in Chemical Engineering). In
our minds the interview process was a better way to judge students and we liked
it. With national integration being our primary goal those days, selecting the
top two or three candidates from each state was acceptable. But that could not
continue for long and the JEEs came into existence.
In my view JEEs are
responsible for the ultimate success of several hundreds of thousands students
who try hard to get in to the IITs but fail to do so at the end. But they
manage to get a good grasp on science and mathematics from their efforts. They
join other schools and do well. I know several young boys and girls in Chennai
who could not get in to the IITs but are doing well in engineering, thanks to
the rigors of institutional coaching.
I am also glad that the Center
is attempting to increase the number of IITs and is also attempting to increase
the enrollment in the existing IITS. This will provide opportunities for more
young students to join them and excel.
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"
Reasons why JEE should not be abolished"
1. The vast
majority who graduate from the Institutions of excellence would never dream of
abolishing the JEE. But that is obvious and natural to come from "us"
2. What we need to
demolish is the argument favouring this move and to do this, understand
who are the advocates,and what their intentions are and how powerful they are.
3. Let us answer
the three questions, to enable us prepare a sound petition. That would bring us
to the next big question. Having drafted this petition, how would we plan to
pilot this.
Let
us answer these questions to get the way ahead.
JEE is about the best
administered competitive selection exam, in its circumstances.
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1. I think IITs have
done an irreplaceable job in honing the skills of the top sixteen-year-olds
across the country and training them for 5 years.
2. Recently I read
somewhere that if you have to name a single individual who deserves the credit
for America's great engineering strides in the last century, perhaps SP
Timoshenko tops the list. Similarly if you want to credit an education system
for putting India on the world map, producing teaching personnel of a
reasonably good standard, and a research culture, IITs, IMHO, run away with the
cake.
3. Recently I attended a
one-day conference at IITM on NPTEL wherein the idea is to disseminate the
knowledge of reputed professors to all engineering colleges at a nominal cost.
This kind of service,I think, only IITs will think of doing, and not the
University colleges and certainly not the private colleges.
4. I shudder to think
what will happen to engineering education in India if the IIT system is diluted
further.
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Here are the reasons which
come to my mind.
1. Maintain Excellence: JEE helps maintain a high bar in the
selection process and helps filter the top 2%. This excellence filter needs to
be preserved.
2. University Autonomy: The university should have the authority to
select the model (exam) using which it had like to filter the students.
3. Choice to the Student: The student should have a choice in the
exams he had like to appear for. It should be a single point of failure with
just one exam available. This is more of a reason for why one should not have
Common Entrance Test, rather than a reason for not abolishing JEE.
4. Cost of change: There are costs at multiple levels that need to
sustain. Cost of implementing the new process, cost of sunsetting the old
process and the destroying the legacy that it created for the past 50 yrs. Cost
of brand change to the whole world.
5. Proof of effectiveness: How is it proved or anticipated that the
new process is effective and efficient, compared to JEE. If it is believed or
proved that JEE is not performing on certain parameters then the first step
should be to correct its course (by being backward compatible with policies)
rather than scrap it out.
I would like to see us put
forward a message which finds a common ground for both the parties, where-in
JEE should sustain by adapting itself to a meet the new requirements, which
that other party thinks, is missing.
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1. The JEE is an integral part
of a filtering process that aims to maximise the intake of students capable of
finishing a demanding degree course in engineering
2. There is a very limited
number of seats available, and the JEE serves its purpose
3. Neither is the JEE as it
stands suitable to act as a filter for all engineering/medical/science college
applicants, nor will a general examination (other than the existing school
certificates) work well as a specialised filter for the IITs
4. If the JEE fails to ensure
an adequate number of underprivileged students get admission, the admission
criteria need adjustment, not the test (some news reports indicate this could
be one factor influencing the call for change)
5. The JEE by itself needs
urgent modifications in order to defeat the ploys used by coaching classes
(which actually exploit its design weaknesses). This has no bearing on any
proposal to remove the JEE and force the IITs to accept a filter system
designed and administered by an independent third party
6. If the national imperative
calls for marked policy changes, those should be spelled out clearly, and the
IITs asked to adjust their admission procedures accordingly. If the need for
such policy change has already been announced, this needs to be debated
separately, independent of political 'noise' about the JEE and who administers
it
