36 - New IITs are a disaster, says PM's scientific adviser IBN LIve

New IITs are a disaster, says PM's scientific adviser

New Delhi: Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's initiative to establish eight new Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) has drawn flak from his own scientific adviser C.N.R. Rao, who said on Friday that the opening of so many new IITs is a “disaster”.
“Opening so may IITs in one year is a disaster. I had no idea that so many IITs have already come up in our country,” he told reporters on the sidelines of an event at the Federation of Indian Cambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI).
Six new IITs - in Orissa, Bihar, Rajasthan, Punjab and Andhra Pradesh - have started operations from the current academic session. India now has 13 IITs.
“This is not a play. To open IITs, you need proper planning. There are makeshift campuses and some are even attending classes in old IITs,” said the renowned scientist.
“I came to know about this development after the institutes admitted students. This is sad and I have told the prime minister and even the human resource development minister (Arjun Singh) about this. I am dissatisfied with the developments,” said Rao, a visiting professor at Cambridge University.
IITs are premier engineering colleges of the country. Manmohan Singh has already announced that India will have eight new IITs, including the six opened this year, to boost engineering and technology education.
______________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp 

Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 20:33:44 -0700 (PDT)

As  recently as Jan. 2011,  the Minister for HRD Shri Kapil Sibal himsel admitted that the new IITs set up in 2008 suffer from poor infrastructure and are not upto the mark and are finding it difficult to  attract and retain their faculty.  

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011:01-18/india/28370757_1_temporary-campuses-kapil-sibal-new-iits

This was only expected and even the scientific adviser to the PM Prof.C.N.Rao had expressed strong views even as early as 2008 that starting so many IITs together is a disaster. 

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/new-iits-are-a-disaster-says-pms-scientific-adviser/72935-3-1.html

The total lack of planning while starting 8 new IITs together may be seen from the fact that all the new IITs started with the same set of B.Tech. programmes in CSE, EE and ME ( except for IIT Bhubaneswar and IIT Gandhinagar which started programmes in Civil Engineering and Chemical Engineering respectively in the place of the B.Tech. programme in CSE).  It should have been obvious to anyone that it would be impossible to find the required number of faculty with the right background to man the 8 departments of EEE and ME and 6 Departments in CSE which has come up at the 8 new IITs at the same time. The older 7 IITs are also short of faculty in these departments arising out of retirements and increase in student strength taking place every year. Simultaneously a number of NITs and other institutions like IIITs etc. have also come up in the country, targeting faculty for the same CSE,EE and ME departments. A quick persual of the websites of the new IITs will reveal the sad state of affairs in terms of inadequate number of regular faculty for different departments at the new IITs. A revolving door syndrome may also be seen among the faculty, namely the migration of faculty from one of the new IIT to another and from one of the new IIT to an older IIT. However, there seems to be very little movement of faculty from the old IITs to the new ones, apparently because of a rule that has been imposed that faculty enjoying pension benefits at the older IITs would loose the same if they migrate from an old IIT to the new IIT. The faculty recruited for the new IITs and those who have been recruited in the old IITs too in recent times ( like all others recruited in recent times for Central Govt. services) are not entitled to the pension scheme applicable to the senior faculty, as I understand.

Most of these new IITs have also not yet started construction of their own campuses though they started in 2008/2009. Some are yet to get the land from the concerned State Government. The students of these new IITs ( except possibly two started an year later) have come to the final year. Infrastructure at the exiting premises is  inadequate in the case of most of these new IITs, in the circumstances. Many of them are unable to start new programmes. particularly M.Tech. programmes, on that account. If these were private self-financing colleges they would have been deaffiliated by the concerned University by now and the IIT Professors themselves, serving on AICTE inspection committees for the private colleges, would have recommended derecognition of these Institutions to the AICTE! Deemed Universities suffering from such lacunae would have been derecognised by the MHRD. 

In my view Pan IIT alumni should express their concern to the Minister for HRD, as the brand IIT image will take  severe beating if necessary steps are not taken to address these issues urgently.

-RB

______________________________

From: Sriram IITM

Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 17:59:35 +0530 (IST)

On Sat, 21 May 2011, Ravikumar Bhaskaran wrote:

> However, there seems to be very little movement
> of faculty from the old IITs to the new ones, apparently because of a rule
> that has been imposed that faculty enjoying pension benefits at the older
> IITs would loose the same if they migrate from an old IIT to the new IIT.
> The faculty recruited for the new IITs and those who have been recruited in
> the old IITs too in recent times ( like all others recruited in recent times
> for Central Govt. services) are not entitled to the pension scheme
> applicable to the senior faculty, as I understand.

The underlying issue is true (acute faculty shortage in new IITs), but
this particular pension issue is solvable, I believe. The old Government
pension scheme is closed as of 2004 and all central government employees
recruited since then are in a standard contributory (non-pension)
retirement scheme. Since the new IITs were started more recently, they
have no provision for anything other than this new contributory scheme,
even if one was shifting was a previous job with the pension scheme. At
the old IITs, those entering the system after 2004 are in this new scheme,
but those who shift from a previous job covered under the old pension
scheme are allowed to continue in the old pension scheme. We need to make
some procedural change that will enable this in the new IITs, I think this
is doable with some influence and lobbying from alums, for example. But I
am not sure this is the main reason people are not going to the new IITs -
many seem to be adopting the wait-and-watch strategy. Senior faculty
members, even those from Hyderabad, for example, are reluctant to shift
from IITM to IITH citing above reason. They are wary.

> In my view Pan IIT alumni should express their concern to the Minister for
> HRD, as the brand IIT image will take  severe beating if necessary steps are
> not taken to address these issues urgently.
I would put a slightly different spin on this; we should accept the new
IITs as one of our own and see what we can do so that the brand image does
not get diluted. We should extend all lobbying and other support so these
new IITs come up to speed faster - they don't have alums like us, and so
it is up to us to do this.

sriram

_____________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp 

Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 18:26:35 -0700 (PDT)

I agree with Prof.Sriram. PAN IIT India representing alumni of all IITs should wake up to the situation and try to be see what could be done to ensure that Brand IIT does not get diluted. The fact is that we cannot wish away the new IITs and the fact that the hundreds of IIT alumni passing out of the new IITs would be joining the fold of PAN IIT Alumni from 2012.  I request the Secretary General of PIAI to please discuss the subject with the President of PIAI and take this matter up as an item in the next EC Meet ( I hope such meetings are held regularly and important issues concerning PAN IIT Alumni are discussed at these meetings - why not be transparent and put up the Minutes of these Meetings in the PIAI website?)

-RB

______________________________

30 - Hows this for IIT JEE Coaching - Time Magazine

Fri, May 14 03:00 PM 2010 Math whiz' Super 30 in Time list Patna, May 14 (PTI) Time Magazine has selected mathematician Anand Kumar's school - Super 30 - in the list of Best of Asia 2010. Last year, all the 30 students of the coaching institute set up by Kumar in Patna cracked the IIT-JEE examination. "Super 30 centre has a pass rate of 100 per cent. What makes that feat even more remarkable is that these students are the poorest of the poor who would otherwise never be able to afford full-time coaching," the Time magazine said. The students need to pass a test to get into 'Super 30' and then commit themselves to a year of 16-hour daily studies. Since 2003, 182 of a total 210 students have made it to the IITs. The institute's founder Kumar who missed a chance to study at Cambridge for lack of money gives full scholarships, including room, boarding and travel to all the students in a batch of 30 students. Expressing happiness over the recognition, Kumar said, "It is a pleasurable moment for us as 'Super 30' has become an example of what''s possible when human potential is tapped." Education is the only weapon for downtrodden and to rid themselves of poverty and social exploitation, he said. The project has won the notice of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who met Kumar in February to hear his plan to launch a national program for talented rural children. _________________________________ On 15/05/10 11:00 PM, Achuta Ramaiah  wrote: hi ram a great article. imagine 100% results from Bihar ?? I remember having heard of a bihar village which sends many successful iitians chaps every  year - they are married off at a young age  to take their mind away from sex etc and lo they do well in Bihar !! No wonder in Bihar you find everthing - genius, dacoity, thefts, political wrangling, best yoga ashrams etc.. A paradox really. One of my classmates in iitm 67 batch  did electrical with us nearly topped the batch - obtained a doctorate from Phoenix university married a Christian girl in USA , sister of Dr Sidhu's wife and was doing well in  bringing up sick companies with no profits and made a name for such work . He did join a ashram in Bihar and wanted to do well in designing a medical instrument cheap for Indians for giving BP , heart rates, sugar levels all in one go . he almost made it but unfortunately picked up viral fever in Africa while touring with his guru and died. His brother lives in Hyderabad and communicate on Internet. He was divorced and is survived by his only daughter Radhika. I made a mention of him in my article under tragic death heading. This by the way . yes do you not  think that Arun Kumar be encouraged . Imagine he is high lighted by Time magazine and even PM notices it - all because he is connected with iit jee and sibal etc are gunning for IITJEE. life is lie that. achuta regards to your wife and famil. jai sai ram __________________________ From: Ranjan Pant  I think efforts like this have the potential to really tranform rural India - it is quite possible in 10-20 years from now, many of these 30 (who are obviously very hard-working and bright) will become successful in life and "give-back" to their villages/rural areas, start new industries/schools there.. -Ranjan ___________________________ From: Varada Raju IITM 1970  I think the entire country and the states of AP, TN & Karnataka ( the parents in these stastes) in particular are much too obsessed with JEE. Agreed IIT gets the cream of the students ( this is the first sentence I heard in IIT) and produces outstanding graduates.                                                    But what about the 2000 or so engineering colleges at the second, third, fourth levels ? What kind of teachers do they have ? In my opinion the fate of the country depends much more on their products than on the handful of IITians. Because they are the ones who must run tomorrow's industries, organisations and the like. If you remember TTJ said in the silver jubilee RU, " If I need someone to do research and develop a new product, I look for an IITian. But if I want an engineer to run my machines and who can handle the bolts and nuts kind of job, I recruit a NON- IITian" It is my guess that there are ten jobs for the routine engineer than for the inventor.                          I think we are all too obsessed about the JEE, the teaching in IIT, the system and so on and do not give a thought to the quality of the products from the non- IITs. My point is instead of worrying too much what we should do to the schools in order to get more people of a given school into IIT, we should see how we can improve the standards at the the non- IITs. I have no specific ideas how this can be done. Regards Varada ____________________________ From: DC CHANDRASEKHAR IITM  Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 21:55:48 +0530 (VARADA) You should contact and get NPTEL that is available for Rs 1 lakh and this contains all the engineering course materials developed by IIT . In case you need any help pl let me know. _________________________________ From: Priya Ranjan Swarup IITK  Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 14:19:47  Ram Don't you see some kind of moonlighting happenning here.  I am confused! PRS __________________________________ From: Vickram Crishna -IITD Anand Kumar spotted the cracks in the IIT-JEE system, and has exploited it to good purpose (giving the poorest but talented people a chance). However, the same cracks have being exploited for the opposite reason (getting people rich enough to pay, a seat in IIT) for much longer than 3 years. Since we all knew about this, I find it hard to believe that the IITs themselves had not.  I feel our campaign to restore the JEE to its original purpose needs to take note of both these phenomena. Just as we do not know, but fear with regret, about the quality of modern IIT grads, we do not know how these poorest will fare once they emerge from the campus. Still, if even one does make something of himself (are they all male?) it will be heartwarming and a tremendous accolade for the IIT system, despite and in spite of everything.  I do not want to disparage the Super 30 solution, but still want to believe that the JEE remains the country's only chance to filter enough people to an institute of excellence, to make a change. Of course, you and I are among the people who were supposed to make that change happen already. However, in this context, let me tell you a story that is apocryphal in the J Krishnamurti school system. Sometime in the late 50s, J asked the principal of Rishi Valley where the leaders of change were, that the school was supposed to produce. In a miff, he quit and started the Blue Mountains School, which still continues to educate differently, at a very small scale - and arguably, a very small scale is the only way that true education can be imparted.   From: Vickram Crishna -IITD-AADT <vvcrishna@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 20:01:36 +0530 To: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM <ramrajah@optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: FW: All 30 students of Super 30*, a free coaching centre in Bihar, cracked IIT ***** Anand Kumar spotted the cracks in the IIT-JEE system, and has exploited it to good purpose (giving the poorest but talented people a chance). However, the same cracks have being exploited for the opposite reason (getting people rich enough to pay, a seat in IIT) for much longer than 3 years. Since we all knew about this, I find it hard to believe that the IITs themselves had not.  I feel our campaign to restore the JEE to its original purpose needs to take note of both these phenomena. Just as we do not know, but fear with regret, about the quality of modern IIT grads, we do not know how these poorest will fare once they emerge from the campus. Still, if even one does make something of himself (are they all male?) it will be heartwarming and a tremendous accolade for the IIT system, despite and in spite of everything.  I do not want to disparage the Super 30 solution, but still want to believe that the JEE remains the country's only chance to filter enough people to an institute of excellence, to make a change. Of course, you and I are among the people who were supposed to make that change happen already. However, in this context, let me tell you a story that is apocryphal in the J Krishnamurti school system. Sometime in the late 50s, J asked the principal of Rishi Valley where the leaders of change were, that the school was supposed to produce. In a miff, he quit and started the Blue Mountains School, which still continues to educate differently, at a very small scale - and arguably, a very small scale is the only way that true education can be imparted.   ______________________________________ On 1/06/10 3:01 AM, Achuta Ramaiah wrote: great ram bu the attraction is still iitjee which sibal wants grounded.  you agree ? achuta _________________________________ From: Jairam Sampath-IITM Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 09:36:38 +0530 This movement is excellent.  I will sometime later share my own experiences in smaller towns and government schools in the most backward of regions of India. Our only hope is that the youth coupled with the power of education for the under-privileged will act and clean-up the Indian polity. Kind regards, Jairam __________________________________

28 - Govt to go ahead with ISEET - Deccan herald

Govt to go ahead with ISEET

New Delhi, Feb 13, 2012, DHNS:

States to be persuaded to accept single entrance test proposal
The Human Resource Development Ministry is all set to go ahead with its plan to conduct a common engineering entrance examination from 2013, but the first nation-wide test may only cover technical institutions funded by the Centre.

Meanwhile, the states will also be persuaded to accept the proposal to conduct a single entrance test for admission to engineering colleges under their jurisdiction.

“Ministry will go ahead with its plan to conduct a common entrance test in 2013 for admissions to science and engineering institutions funded by the Central government, if not for all the technical institutions functioning across the country,” sources in the HRD Ministry told Deccan Herald.

This means that the entrance test, to be conducted next year, will only cover 15 Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), 30 National Institutes of Technology (NITs), four Indian Institutes of Information Technology (IIITs), five Indian Institutes of Science Education and Research (IISERs) and few deemed universities which come under the purview of the HRD Ministry.

According to recommendations of the Ramasami committee, the single entrance, that can would be called as Indian Science-Engineering Eligibility Test (ISEET) 2013, will be conducted in two parts—main and advance—in April or May next year.
As per the proposal, examinations will be of three hour duration each and will be held on one single day, sources said.

For admission, a candidate must score above 40 per cent in Class-XII board examination. However, weightage accorded to the performance in Class-XII can go up to 100 per cent. “The combined weightage for the Main and the Advance paper under ISEET shall not, in any case, exceed 60 per cent,” sources said.

It is for the individual educational institutions or the state government to decide on the weightage to be accorded to the scores in Class-XII, main and advance examination, they added.

The proposal

As per the proposal, it would be up to each institution or groups of institutions or state agencies to conduct counselling and admission.

At present, there are around 15 lakh engineering colleges across the country and over 150 entrance tests are conducted for admission to these institutes. “Ministry wants to bring change in the current system in order to give relief to students of multiple tests by introducing a common entrance test for all these technical institutions. But, this requires the states’ consent to the proposal for its implementation all over the country,” sources said.

A meeting of the state education ministers on the issue is “tentatively” scheduled on February 22.

“At the meeting, the states will be urged to deliberate on the issue and take a view on the implementation of the recommendations of the Ramasami Committee,” sources added.
____________________________________
COMMENTS:

Ram Krishnaswamy IITM Wrote:

IITs down the gurgler. Mindless Ramasami kills of IIT JEE :-(

Sad Day for IITs and India.

Rambo

_________________________

From: Venkateswaran IITM

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 04:21:21 -0000

Is there any way to stop this now? 

Can we (those who are against it) refrain from attending the PAN-IIT meet this year in protest?

Should we go on a hunger-strike??!

______________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp 

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:19:16 -0800 (PST)

I thought there are 16 IITs totally - the 7 older ones at Kharagpur, Bombay, Madras, Kanpur, Delhi, Guwahati and Roorkee , the 8 new ones, namely Bhubaneswar, Patna, Ropar, Mandi, Jodhpur, Indore, Hyderabad and Gandhinagar and IIT BHU. Why are all reports talking of only 15 IITs? 

Is the Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology under the Dept. of Space going to be exempted from being brought under the ISEET.  I find no mention of this Centrally funded Institution anywhere when they are talking of a Common Entrance Examination !!

_________________________________

From: Ashok Kalbag IITB

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:30:34 +0530

" Why only 15 IITs and not 16? - Is IISST being exempted?"

IIT-BHU is technically not yet an IIT. The bill is pending in parliament.

___________________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp 

Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:43:42 -0800 (PST)

Thanks. I read just now in the IT-BHU website as follows: 

       

" CONVERSION OF IT-BHU INTO IIT (BHU), Varanasi HAS BEEN PASSED BY LOK SABHA ON MARCH 24, 2011. The Institutes of Technology (Amendment) Bill 2011, has been ALREADY TABLED IN RAJYASABHA FOR CONSIDERATION AND PASSING .

        

It is built-in in the Amendment Bill that the students admitted in 2006-07 session and thereafter, and graduating in 2009-10 and thereafter, will be awarded the IIT Degree; provided that such candidates have not been awarded the degree. BHU has kindly agreed and consequentially postponed the conferment of the degree by deferring the convocation of IT-BHU for the 2009-10 session, to benefit such students."

Incidentally I found an interesting news about BHU-IT that though they admit students through IIT-JEE for all their UG Programmes in Engineering in respect of their B.Pharm. degree programme, presently half the intake is through IIT-JEE and the rest by means of combined PMT-PAT Examination of BHU 

( http://www.bhu.ac.in/it.htm).

_______________________

From: Monu Abraham, 

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 04:34:33 +0000

A lot has been said on this subject and I would like to add another perspective. 

I am not sure I fully endorse the views of all the doomsayers. 

Some years ago when my two sons were looking for admission to Colleges in Delhi for Commerce and Economics I noted that the better colleges had higher cut off marks for admission. This resulted in the best going to these colleges - colleges such as St. Stephens, Shriram college etc. These colleges also attract the best corporates for campus recruitment thus reinforcing their standing and justifying their higher cut off marks. Recently there was a hue and cry in the media because some Delhi college - probably Shriram College of commerce - specified 100% marks as their cut off. 

BITS Pilani had a very high cut off >93% in 1995 when my son applied - I believe the cut off is even higher now - for admission to Engg. They have also managed to get good students and maintain a fairly good reputation in spite of their location disadvantage. 

To extend the logic to our case there is no reason why IITs cannot specify higher cut off levels as admission criteria for results of the common entrance exams. The same can also be applied to the part from board exams. This will result in a fairly good standard of students.

It is also a fact that all good students in India do not write the IIT entrance exam - I know my son didn't because he felt that it would affect his preparation for the 12th board exam - I know of many other smart young kids who had similar reasons for not writing the IIT entrance exam. By having a common entrance exam we may in fact be harvesting students from a larger base which will be a definite plus. 

Finally it is not right to expect the world to stand still and continue practices started over 50 years ago. We must accept that change is inevitable but we must also learn to adapt it intelligently to our advantage. In this case to ensure that IITs continue to get the best students. 

Phew I finally got it off my chest. 

Cheers

Varghese aka Monu

_________________________________

From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM 

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:23:27 +1100

Monu, Doom sayers know more than you think.

Kapil Sibal planned this in June 2009 . His campaign manager Gupta owns a few colleges. His youngest son is behind this and showed  the whole plan the week Kapil became the Minister and said that he will get it through.

Now all the examination money will go to him.

Say 5 million students apply for all these IITs. And this guy charges Rs 1000 per student. That is Rs 500 crores. 10% of that will go to him for his lifetime.

Marks in this common exam will be controlled by HRD Babus and Not IITs.

Believe it or not,

Doom Sayer

Rambo

_______________________________________

From: "Ved IITM

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:51:07 -0600

Rambo Mate: Nice to have you back. ....

One should have optimism sprinkled with a dose of realism or constructive cynicism.

 Optimism gives one hope in this turbulent world. Without hope, life could become meaningless.

 Your point is however valid - India is so corrupt that it has nowhere to go but up.

Ved

_______________

From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM 

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 19:40:45 +1100

Ved,  this has nothing to do with optimism.Some of us who opposed this common entrance exam have had info on the people driving the scheme.

Not long before it becomes another scam. Believe it or not.

________________________________

From: Achuta Ramaiah IITM-

Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:49:35 +0530

Ram ,  So iit-jee is dead !! So far so good by sibal,s way. Fine wil the new scheme score over iit jee. Hard to guess. Well your and our fight is over. Let us congratulate ourselves as being of the old order and say cheers. Just watch the performance for just one year and with chaos all over people will bay for blood for the old iit jee. So wait for the day !!!!

Achuta

___________________________

25 - New IIT Students In A Dilemma To Acquire Degrees - One India

New IIT Students In A Dilemma To Acquire Degrees

Thursday, March 1, 2012, 11:33 [IST]

Most of the students joined the new IIT's (Indian Institutes of Technology) all pertaining with their eyes wide open hoping for a very bright future. The same students are now in a major dilemma since they may not acquire their IIT Degrees this year.

The first B.Tech batch of the new IIT's will graduating this year may need to wait for a long time for their degrees since the new IIT's have still not been approved by the Parliament. The bill for incorporating new IIT's was passed in the Lok Sabha. However, the bill has still not been cleared in Rajya Sabha. IIT's are also unable to fix a convocation date due to this uncertainty. Mostly the IIT's hold their convocation in the month of August.

One of the new IIT directors claimed that since it takes substantial amount of time to plan a convocation, which meets standards of IIT's; it would be helpful if Parliament acted quickly on the same. The first batch of IIT-Hyderabad 30 M.Tech students graduated in 2011. However, students have still not received their degrees. Sources from IIT-Hyderabad reveal students have been offered provisional degrees for the time being.

Nearly, 160 students will be graduating from IIT Hyderabad this year. The institute is hoping that Rajya Sabha clears the bill as soon as possible. In all, almost 600 UG and PG students will be graduating from the new IIT's this year. But still, for the suture of the students it's about time that Rajya Sabha passes the bill.
_______________________________
Alumni Comments:

Ram Krishnaswamy  wrote:

Only in India such things can happen. Not at all surprised

Rambo

_______________________________

From: akshat shankar 

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:23:57 +0530

And still some of the IITians feel that the IIT brand is not diluting!

Akshat

_________________________________

From: Purnima Gupta - IITR 

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 02:41:22 -0400 (EDT)

If at all IIT brand is diluting, it is not because of additions of new IITs, but because the education standards are slipping through; because the country as a whole is slipping through; because the value of rupee is slipping through.

purnimag

_____________________________

From: akshat shankar 

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:46:36 +0530

Education standards in India were never great...

Before 1991 our country was not even a developing country...

Still IITs were doing great...

And now when there is a news report that students of 'IIT' have graduated without that 'IIT' being officially formed...we still are unable to find fault with the policies of this government. Just see the pictures of the present campuses of some of the new IITs, and you would be appalled. 

Arjun Singh and Kapil Sibal have killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.

Regards,

Akshat

_________________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp 

Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 01:29:29 -0700 (PDT)

 "Education standards in India were never great"!! is too sweeping a statement but is fortunately being contradicted by the words "Still IITs were doing Great" even "before 1991 when our country was not even a developing country"

Regarding the delay in getting the new IITs included in the IIT Act, I suppose once the Lok Sabha has approved the bill it is only a matter of time before the same becomes an Act. The delay is primarily because of the stalling of parliament proceedings and it may not be fair to blame the Government. There is possibly a similar delay in the passage of the NIT Act in the Rajya Sabha as well. Let us hope that the same gets passed in the Rajya Sabha in the next few weeks and that the students get their regular degrees around the same time as the students of the older IITs.

And what is wrong with the new IITs? I thought that some of them are shaping very well. Indeed, in my view the IIT brand will get further strengthened by the new IITs or shall I say the new generation of IITs!!

RB

______________________

19 - Proposal Of ISEET 2013 Is A Boon Or Bane,What Say? - One India

Thursday, February 16, 2012, 10:10 [IST]

http://education.oneindia.in/news/2012/02/16/proposal-of-iseet-2013-is-a-boon-or-bane-what-say.html

The Human Resource Development Ministry is all set to go ahead with its plan to conduct a Common Engineering Entrance Examination from 2013, but the first nation-wide test may only cover Technical Institutions funded by the centre.

FIITJEE, the country's first corporatized institute for IIT-JEE and other Engineering Entrance Exams, on Monday voiced concern over the proposed move from Ministry of Human Resource Development to merge the IITJEE and AIEEE Entrance Exams and feel that it could lower the quality of prestigious IIT's.

At a press conference here to discussed the impact of this move on the students and their future RL Trikha, the Director and HOD of Distance education, FIITJEE Limited and C.V.Kalyan Kumar the director of FIITJEE limited spoke at length on the topic “Change of assessing students in school, based on CCE and the current proposal of merging all National Engineering Exams- IIT-JEE and AIEEE with inclusion of Boards Exam. It is a BOON or a BANE?”

According to Trikha, “JEE was a major factor that gave IIT's the exclusivity that they command today. A student preparing for JEE prepared for the test with the sole purpose of entering IIT and not a regional engineering college. “School Boards like CBSE, ICSE are easier to score than compared to states boards. This is unfair to students appearing for state boards compared to CBSE. States like Bihar, the state board awards lower marks than the national boards”.

“A better option would be to have multiple rounds of screening tests, rather than giving 40% weight-age to 12th std results. This decision will lower the standards of IIT, already IIT's have been criticized for lack of quality, this decision may be a big blow, as we do not know what change will follow in the opening and closing ranks of IIT's. There is also a need for uniform syllabus, since different boards have different marking system, which needs to be standardized. And lastly, the student will face immense pressure as there's a single exam to make it or break it” he said.

In case, if everything falls in place, by 2013 there shall be a Common Entrance Test for all Government Engineering Colleges. The CET scores will also be applicable to those states who currently accept AIEEE scores for entrance in their respective regional colleges.

HRD Ministry expects more states to follow the suit. With the decision another significant change is that along with the test scores, students 12th std marks will have 40% weight-age. However, the proposal for merged examination has faced flak by the large IIT students community.

During the conference, C.V Kalyan also shared future expansion plans of FIITJEE. According to him, he said “We are aiming to provide a platform to students for truly global career, yet grounding them in solid Indian value systems”. When asked about the next for FIITJEE in the coming years, Trikha said “Vision without action is just a dream; action without vision is simply waste of time, and action with vision only makes a positive difference in anything you do”.

He also said “We will keep marching on with our core values and keep demonstrating next levels of excellence with consistency to remain a leader in this industry and contribute to society through education at all levels. However, we also have many roaring education-oriented diversification plans through a series of rapid expansion programs for next 2 years in Indian and Abroad.

What do you think so? How would you like to express it? As a BOON or a BANE? 
_______________________________

From: BasabGhosh IIT 

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:23:01 +0530

People like Trikha should realise that it is because of coaching institutions like their's the standard has fallen in IITs. Of course they have a concern about HS exam results being given 40% weightage, if this is implemented, their patronisation is bound to fall!

___________________________________

From: Satish Jha 

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:03:23 -0500

Standards never fall because of coaching institutes.. That is an interesting way to look at things, however..

As long as IITs do not admit more than they are designed to admit, standards would fall only because they may be lowered by the institutions themselves.

______________________________________

From: BasabGhosh IIT 

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:46:11 +0530

( Satish) At IIT level, we are looking for people able to think out of the box, not rote learners. These coaching institutions prepare rote learners who do well in the JEE by power of their ability to mug up, and not their sharp brains. This is how the standards have fallen in IITs. These are the people who find it very tough to do well when they are asked to exercise their brains to find solutions to problems, so much so that some of them can't cope with the pressure and commit suicide! In our time, we found the IIT courses a breeze to sail through as long as you understood the concepts and learnt how to apply them.

On the other hand, compulsory reservation for SC/ST/OBC candidates have meant that IITs have to fill the quota by lowering the standards of admission, which lowers the overall standards.

________________________________________

From: Satish Jha 

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 01:22:30 -0500

( Basab) Well, if the creative "brains" cannot leave the "rote learners" behind then they are clearly not creative enough. If the creative folks could not compete in the basic tests- then the test had challenges as well- it was not measuring creativity.. and rewarding rote... Please change that to measuring creativity and the coaching schools may start contributing to creativity in whatever way they can.. 

______________________________________

From: Subhash Shanbhag 

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 11:53:33 +0530 (IST)

( Basab) Decisions cannot be taken based on any particular body (like classes) benefit. Now students will probably attend two classes - one for board another for ISEET because requirements are different plus attend college - their burden will increase. A student who falls ill on that exam day will suffer one year ?? How will the admissions take place if any state board delays it result for some reason To admit so many students will the IITs be able to set such a paper - The range of marks for students admitted will be very large may be some admissions will take place with some students getting negative marks or 0 marks (in Maths) becasue we know the paper is tough  Lot of thinking needs to be done before this really gets implemented Subhash __________________________________________ From: Kompella Kamesh - IIT-  Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:25:15 -0800 IITs get to decide the JEE paper, right?  If they are not able to stay one step ahead of the coaching institutes, does it not speak volumes about the lack of nimbleness on part of the IITs?  There will always be people attempting to figure out the system. IIT papers are now predictable, that's what coaching institutes are telling us. JEE by any other name is still doomed. _________________________________________ From: Satyajit Roy IIT KGP  Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:12:19 -0500 This coaching institute blame is just a false flag. Coaching institutes will adapt ... The real story is imposition of multiple choice to replace the "short answer problems", which had been the hallmark of the JEE. Falling into the SAT structure is what is the the real goal of the NWO ... :) ______________________________________ From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM  Satyajit, I agree. Perhaps HRD should look at the Option of Converting JEE Coaching schools into accredited High Schools teaching all the subjects.. During our times Private colleges like Loyola and Vivekananda college in Chennai had an edge over other schools only because they got the cream of the students in the state as well as had better teachers..meaning they were kind of coaching schools helping their students perform better at IIT entrance exams. Unfortunately the Ramasamy committee and the Kakodkar committee created reports that HRD wanted, to decimate IITs. Murli Manohar Joshi dug at the foundations of IITs. Way back in 2002. Arjun Singh continued the job and kept digging and Kapil Sibal came and toppled IITs for good. The Nation should build statues for all these mindless politicians on every campus so the people remember. ______________________________________ From: Venkatraman  Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:10:30  I too agree, Rambo.  There is the Tripos exam in the UK and the entrance exams for the Grandes Ecoles in France. No one is clamoring to lower the standards of these exams. They cherish the traditions of these exams.  It is only in India that politicians who cannot think beyond the next election go out of their way to denigrate and trample upon all that is excellent.  Maha Kavi Bharathi has said  "Nalladhor Veenai seidhe adhai nalam keda puzhudiyil erivadhundo" (Do we make a beautiful veena and throw it in the dust?) and the actions of these people would make him weep. Are you in India or the US? Do you know if it is possible to bring up a Public Interest Litigation in India against the proposed changes to the JEE format? Since the future of India's engineering education is at stake, it seems to me that it would be in the public interest to bring up such a suit. Venkat _____________________________________ From: Ashish Bhatia  Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:19:24 -0800 "These coaching institutions prepare rote learners " I do not understand why people make this implicit assumption. Any evidence to substantiate it? Ashish ____________________________________ From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM  Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:34:44 +1100 Basab, We can blame coaching institutions all we want. The truth is that People in charge of IIT JEE are the real culprits because they made the JEE tougher and tougher in a sadistic way and the exams became so tough that no high school leaver could score well unless he took extra coaching outside school hours… So let us accept that IITs created the monster called JEE Coaching schools.. There was a huge demand for coaching schools allowing many such schools to mushroom all over the nation.. It was IIT JEE people who switched to multiple choice questions as opposed to allowing students to solve problems on paper where the workings showed the quality of students grasp of knowledge.. When it comes to quality of teachers in Coaching schools and IITs teaching maths, physics and chemistry, many recent graduates have confirmed that IIT Staff are of woefully lower standard. I also believe that IITs died the day Kapil Sibal created 16 IITs overnight. Believe we should all save our energies and breath and focus on something more worthwhile than IIT JEE and Aakash. This is my personal opinion. No one needs to agree or disagree Rambo ________________________________ From: Monu Abraham Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:22:51 +0000 Ram, "When it comes to quality of teachers in Coaching schools and IITs teaching maths, physics and chemistry, many recent graduates have confirmed that IIT Staff are of woefully lower standard. " I have reproduced above a small porrtion of the string of messages.  This can be explained simply by what we pay IIT staff - restricted by Govt payscales and a pittance compared to what the private coaching schools can afford to pay their teachers.  Varghese ________________________________ From: BasabGhosh IIT  Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:02:47 +0530 ( Ram ) The coaching institutions may not want that. As an acredited high school, they won't be able to charge the astronomical fees that they charge as coaching institutions. Contrary to the general belief that opening 16 IITs have destroyed the IIT value, I think this will actually reduce the pressure on aspiring students. Considering the increase in number of eligible students now with respect to 1960s, it is impossible to continue with only 5 IITs (or 7, if you take Roorkee and BHU-IT). The increase in the number of seats will also create opportunities for students who missed the bus for fraction of percntages. Then hopefully a sizeable number will remain in their chosen profession rather than becoming investment bankers! _________________________________ From: Sriram IITM Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:54:04 +0530 (IST) On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Ram Krishnaswamy wrote: > "IT was IIT JEE people who switched to multiple choice questions as opposed  to allowing students to solve problems on paper where the workings showed the quality of students grasp of knowledge..  When it comes to quality of teachers in Coaching schools and IITs teaching maths, physics and chemistry, many recent graduates have confirmed that IIT Staff are of woefully lower standard."< Oh goody, time to counter Rambo's Ravings. :-) Actually, above two issues are related (and thus I launch into my long story).  I would not say that IIT teachers of Maths, Physics or Chemistry are of woefully lower standard. First of all, come on, you expect a recent graduate to be a good judge of this? Also, the two are on different missions - the JEE coach has a very well specified goal whereas the IIT faculty member has a more diffuse goal, so it is not fair to compare the two.  In the good old days, IIT faculty members in the Maths, Physics and  Chemistry departments were mostly expected to play the role of service providers, teaching all the "service" courses required in the the BTech curricula. These departments have now grown into being research centres on their own, much like the Engineering departments, so these faculty members are no longer generally inclined towards putting their effort into teaching BTech service courses.  This also means that they are less inclined to put their effort into grading JEE scripts.  In the good olds days some 40 or 50 thousand wrote the JEE, so all the scripts could be hand graded.  In 2000, a screening test was introduced, as the JEE applicant numbers was crossing 100,000 and hand grading was becoming a monumental task.  The multiple choice screening test enabled us to handle the larger numbers and the final hand graded test was limited to only the top 20 or 30 thousand from the screening test.  By 2005, we had enough data to look at performance of applicants in the screening test and the final hand graded test. The correlation was very high - those who did well in the screening test were the ones who were doing well in the hand graded final test. So, the question, why bother with the final hand graded exam at all?  And hence, from 2006, the former multiple choice screening test was expanded into the only test. We realize now that the hand graded test was perhaps an important component and the student's preparation for it was what prepared them for IIT. Now, they get in without their skills at this type of long written test being examined.  Is there some way to go back to that?  Given the numbers, there is no way IITs can handle everyone taking on the long test. One of the ideas floating around is to use the XII marks and/or a multiple choice test to screen applicants and use an old fashioned hand graded final exam to decide admissions.  But, will this work? With today's gen X or gen Y or gen Z or whatever with the focus on instant gratification, will we find enough takers for the old fashioned exam and the old fashioned teaching and learning that went with it?  And by takers, I mean both students and faculty ... sriram  ___________________________________

From: Venkatraman IITM

Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:08:52 -0000

Rambo, I just saw your online petition and signed it.

If you think the PIL is a good idea, please let me know and I will be happy to volunteer / contribute in any way I can.
 Venkat

______________________________

From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM 

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 18:33:19 +1100

Venkat nothing will change the mindset of Indian Politicians like Kapil Sibal. Plus PanIITians have endorsed the idea of a Common entrance exam in a document titles Pancha Ratna

Save IIT petition  has received only 2443 signatures while we have 175000 IIT Alumni.

PIL in India opposing anything the Govt is doing is a waste of time in my honest opinion. The judges conveniently say it is beyond them as they did with PILs on Reservations and irregularities in IIT JEE put forward by Prof Rajeev Kumar of IIT KGP. He has been suspended on loss of pay on trumped up charges while IIT KGP Diro who was Changed by CBI is still officiating as Diro..

IIT JEE was administered by IITs and was free of corruption. ISEET will be administered by HRD Officials same as Corrupt AICTE.. 

There is big money to be made controlling a national exam, and many people are already rubbing their hands at the great opportunity..of selling seats in IITs  …for a price..

Top Pan IITians meaning the rich and famous are members of the PM's advisory body and they have obviously endorsed the ISEET, which appears to be an enigma.

IF HRD could develop an unworthy gadget called Aakash wasting a Billion dollars of Tax Payers money, ISEET is a source of Tax Payers funds in perpetuity for HRD Babus and Ministers to pocket.

In the realm of things who are people like you and me to question ministries ? 

Do we have the stomach for a PIL against Policies of a UPA II Coalition that cost the exchequer US $ 40 billion in just 2G scam ? 

Rambo

17 - Centre’s plan to replace JEE, AIEEE raises eyebrows - Daily Pioneer

http://dailypioneer.com/nation/42978-centres-plan-to-replace-jee-aieee-raises-eyebrows.html

Wednesday, 15 February 2012 23:16

PNS | New Delhi

HRD Ministry's proposed move to conduct the Indian Science Engineering Eligibility Test (ISEET) from 2013, as a successor to the Indian Institute of Technology-Joint Entrance Exam (JEE) and All India Engineering Entrance Exam (AIEEE) has stirred up apprehensions amongst the experts and certain State Governments.

However, all eyes are on the forthcoming conference of State Education Ministers which is likely to take place on February 22.

While the Government may be sold on the idea of a common entrance test in 2013 for admissions to at least centrally-funded science and engineering institutions across the country, experts were critical of the doing away with the famed JEE. "JEE had an identity of its own. One that gave IIT's the exclusivity that they command today. A student preparing for JEE prepared for the test with the sole purpose of entering IIT and not a regional engineering college," an expert said.

The respective State boards have different syllabi, marking systems etc and giving 40 per cent weightage to class 12 examination in the common entrance test, in this situation would be like stirring a hornet's nest, the experts noted.
Further, school boards like CBSE, ICSE are easier to score as compared to State boards. This is unfair to students appearing for State boards that award lower marks than the national boards, they felt.

Experts also were of the opinion that a single examination would actually increase the pressure since students would then be unable to bank upon other examinations as a backup to save a year.

Meanwhile sources in HRD Ministry pointed at yet another hurdle-that of taking the State Governments on board with the proposal.

Tamil Nadu, for instance, is likely to oppose the proposal to introduce the Indian Science-Engineering Eligibility Test (ISEET) at the conference. This is on similar lines of the State's earlier opposition to the National Eligibility cum Entrance Test for MBBS courses, the sources felt. They are arguing that such a move would be detrimental to the interests of students from rural parts of the State.

The States will however be persuaded to deliberate on the issue in the meeting, and take a view on the implementation of the recommendations of the Ramasami Committee, sources added.

The committee headed by T Ramasami, secretary, Department of Science and Technology, set up by HRD Ministry had favoured introducing ISEET in two parts - Main and Advanced in April or May next year. As per the proposal, examinations will be of three hour duration each and both will be held on the same day, sources said.

From:  Ram Krishnaswamy
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 1:11 PM

Interesting it raises only eye brows. Should raise peoples blood pressures.

Ramasamies who come out with such recommendations are people who failed to succeed in IIT JEE. What would they know ?

____________________
From: Somnath Bharti
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:18 PM

Yesterday, there was a candle light protest march at IITD campus against the Sibal’s move. Tomorrow, we will be meeting the minister voicing our concerns. I invite students, faculty members and alumni from all IITs to join in the meeting tomorrow at Sibal’s residence between 9-10 AM.

Regards,
Somnath Bharti, Advocate
Supreme Court of India and Delhi High Court
__________________________
dear somnath
wd you like these concerns be also raised from other locations as well..
rgds
nirmal
______________________________

From: Ramachandran Balakrishna IITM 

Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 08:26:04 -0500

I find it hilarious that some state boards are arguing their local exams are harder than those by CBSE and ICSE. During my time (mid 1990s), the state exams at least in Tamilnadu would reproduce the exact math problems found in their textbooks; even the numbers would be the same.

The state engineering college exams would also mooch off the same problems. When I wrote the Anna University Biotech exam, the entire math paper was multiple choice... with no extra sheets of paper to even attempt to work out the answers to partial differential equations and the like. And the guy sitting next to me was trying to copy my selections, even though he got a different question paper code (random re-ordering of questions)!

But to show the other side of the coin, a guy in my CBSE batch failed to count 2 as a prime number in a probability question in the XII board exam. He got 100%.

Regarding the scale differences across states: BITS Pilani has been normalizing various state board scores for decades. Why is this a concern all of a sudden?

-rama

______________________________

From: Selvaraj Israel-IITM
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:55:43 +0530

It is best that the IITs keep their examinations under their own control. IITs can if they wish to, decide that only 40% weightage will be given to JEE and 60% to class 12 results. If they wish, they can do away with JEE and depend on class 12 results. They can if they wish to, revert back to JEE. The point is, they should take the decision, not someone else.

The IITs must decide what is best for the nation and act in the national interest. As a premier institution they must have full autonomy to do so.

Selvaraj

________________________

From: Chandra Jain
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 21:09:03 +0530

Dear Somnath,

This has come too suddenly & without any foreword/preface/warning.

I hope we have done the required preparation & have the mandate to present the case forcefully.
I believe in the cause & look at it as a last-ditch effort for a worthy cause - to save the last vistage of integrity & respectability that any institution in this country can command & is beyond manipulation by vested interests.

Anyway, I will join you tomorrow morning at Sibal's residence since you already seem to have an appointment fixed.
--
Chandra k Jain
India _____________________________
From: Sachin Mittal
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 23:49:45 +0530

As long as government funds IITs, pays for professors salary, there should not be full autonomy.

Exam should definitely move out of clutches of IIT be a national level test where every engineering college in India can accept the scores.

Now what % of weightage is attached to that central test score, to 12 board, 10th board, extra curricular activities etc etc. (with obviously having some uniformity and normalization) should depend upon a collective and consensus decision.

___________________________

12 - IIT JEE Will be missed - Forbes India

http://forbesindia.com/article/hindsight/iitjee-will-be-missed/32286/1

by Ashish K Mishra, Shishir Prasad

The Joint Entrance Exams for admission to the IITs, which are expected to be scrapped, was created to weed out mediocrity and test the intricate knowledge of students

Image: Hindustan Times/ Anshuman Poyrekar

BRAIN TEASERS The IIT-JEE would definitely rank among the toughest three examinations in the World

A former director of the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) Madras, professor M.S. Ananth, recollects a dinner table conversation with an Indian Administrative Services (IAS) officer. The IAS officer firmly believed that the IIT Joint Entrance Examination (JEE) could easily be replaced by any other exam in India. 

Like what, asked Ananth? Perhaps, the UPSC examination, argued the officer. It is fair, tough and can pick the best minds in the country. Ananth remembers his retort to that suggestion. “You get your current UPSC batch and I will get my students and let’s see which is the best team at analytical and reasoning skills.” Ananth claims the officer had a hearty laugh and left it at that.

There is the Dakar Rally in motor rallying. There is the Ironman Triathlon in athleticism. And then there is the Hell Week at the Navy Seal’s training course in the US Marine Corps. These are things that push the mind and the body to the extent possible. The IIT-JEE can be added to this list. It would definitely rank among the toughest three examinations in the world.

The JEE began life as the Common Entrance Exam (CEE). The CEE coincides with the IIT Act of 1961. The idea was to weed out mediocre talent and pick only those who could solve S.L. Loney’s trigonometric identities while brushing their teeth. A JEE question wasn’t just a question. It was designed to knock the intellectual stuffing out of the candidate.

Many who have been a part of the JEE system feel it is the best examination when it comes to testing the intricate knowledge of students. “It does not matter if 2 lakh or 5 lakh students are taking the exam,” says Dr. Ashok Misra, chairman of Intellectual Ventures and former director of IIT, Bombay.

Misra himself took the JEE (then CEE) in 1963.  “It didn’t matter where you came from; to clear the JEE you had to be good,” says professor Jayant Baliga, Distinguished University Professor NC State University who was in the top 50 when he took the exam in 1965.

To help the students, postal coaching classes like Brilliant Tutorials came up. Later, coaching towns like Kota in Rajasthan came up as most state boards did not equip students for the gruelling demands of the JEE. Lalit Goel, an IIT Bombay alumnus, and top 50 ranker in the JEE, remembers his days at Bansal Classes in Kota. “I had made a decision that I will not play [cricket] and not think about girls. We are all away from home. All days were very busy with the coaching and homework,” he says.

But what made the JEE a starting point for something good was the faculty. “It was absolutely world class. I remember my mechanics professor telling me that they weren’t here to teach us a topic, but rather a way of thinking about problems. That’s what makes the IITs special. The JEE is just the start,” says Nitin Srivastava, co-founder & CEO, Mindworks Global Media Services, and an alumnus of IIT Kanpur.
So long JEE: It was tough while it lasted!

This article appeared in Forbes India Magazine of 02 March, 2012

Read more: http://forbesindia.com/article/hindsight/iitjee-will-be-missed/32286/1#ixzz1ou5UKB8h

__________________________________

From: Vickram Crishna -IITD
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 11:12:25 +0530

Hi Ram

I took the JEE (I think it was still called CEE then) in 1969, following my completion of the school leaving examination. Only because I had some sense of not working hard enough for it, I also joined a coaching class, but it was run by a Delhi school (St Columba's) because my own school (St Xavier's) clearly did not encourage the idea of coaching classes (the principal was a noted educationist who served later on the advisory council for national education). I can't say that attending the class helped me much, because I felt somewhat ambivalent about the 'coaching' class on the one hand, and on the other, St Columba's was 'the enemy' as far as school rivalries went. As you know, I did manage to stumble into IIT, and have stumbled my way through technology for the remaining part of my life quite happily.

fyi, some 13 of my class of 31 or 32 students at Xavier's chose IITD, many of the others heading to Bombay, Madras*, Kanpur and Kharagpur. I don't remember the total any more, but it was somewhere like 25 or 26. I only know one person, a good friend, who actually did not make it into IIT that year having tried. There were a handful of diehards who did not take the examination.

(*do you know my classmate Paul Roberts who is presently in Sydney?)

I am only mentioning this because 

a) this article seems to imply that coaching classes are a good thing 

and b) I also know that students from Madras later grew to 'cracking' the IITJEE right from the 8th standard, a damning indictment of a failing secondary education system and tyrannical reverse discrimination in TN.

I thank my school teachers as much and more than the teachers from Columba's, who after all only had to put up with my grumbling presence for 2 months. 

_____________________________________
From: Kumar Iyer - IIT KGP
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:49:44 -0800 (PST)

The best Universities in the world have evolved a tradition of identifying and picking up the best minds for admission. None of them use a single tool like the JEE for evaluation. 

It is time for the IITs, too, to evolve a similar broad-based entry procedure. If the quality of instruction retains its high standard, there is no reason why the brand value of the IITs should be affected.

Yes, so long JEE: It was tough while it lasted! We, the original warriors, came through. But it is no longer necessary that everybody need be a gladiator.

It's time to move on.
kumar

________________________________

From: Purnima Gupta - IITR -
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 02:15:09 -0500 (EST)

Unless we let go of the old, nothing new can happen. Let us welcome the change and hope for better.
purnimag

_________________________

On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 1:15 PM, Suresh Adina  wrote:

I do not think it really matters. Our education system is in such tatters that the selection of students for technical education at these institutes will not matter. Any selection criterion applied will pick some of the best and some not so good. And some mediocre will anyway get in.

It is not up to the faculty to make the best of what they get. this may also be the real test for the IITs so that they can show their true potential in educating students rather than just taking the best (however they may be assessed) and teach them the subjects. Hopefully less than the cream of students may change the education system in IITs.

There can always be a silver lining to any cloud. We have to remove our dark glasses to see it. Let us not stay bogged down in holding something so sacrosanct just because we are a product of the system. Time changes everything.

Cheers
Suresh A

__________________________________
From: Deepak Mirza - IITD Mirza'
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:59:41 +0530

Folks,

I think we are giving up too easy – the new system will immensely increase entry of non-deserving candidates,

Anything short of a single or 2 stage , conducted-under-controlled-conditions, with no room for ANY FORM of cheating (as we believe the present JEE is) will kill the IIT’s.

We cannot conduct a fraud-free board exams for millions of school board examinees countrywide – esp. if entry into IIT’s is at stake,

The smallest % of misuse, is enough to fill 50% + (or 80 % - 100 ???) of all IIT slots with non-deserving candidates,

We must do all we can to stop this change. For reasons above; a part-compromise here is a IIT system death-knell,

IIT students and IIT Alumni may find this a seriously worthy cause to go the govt and media with – including hunger fasts viz the braver,

It’s a very very serious problem we face today,

Deepak
___________________________

From: akshat shankar
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:14:22 +0530

All this seems fine till we don't remember the context.
One corrupt lawyer turned politician whose first claim to fame was to save a corrupt judge in the impeachment process, is singly deciding whom IITs should select.
Faculty is not being consulted on this...Students are not being consulted on this...and the Alumni are not being consulted on this.
Students who protest are being warned by the Director that 'DISCO' would be put against them. He is not even listening to the Senate.
If everything is so fair, then why don't they allow us a debate.
And despite the opaqueness in the approach, people are asking to welcome this change!
Can't we simply compare IIT of today with the one before Arjun Singh and Kapil Sibal came to HRD ministry!

Akshat Shankar

PS: Abolishing of JEE is only a small issue...the bigger thing is that the autonomy of the IITs should be restored.
____________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp 

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:28:05 -0800 (PST)

Let us not not make such sweeping statements. Let us please be objective in our assessment and base the same on facts. In my view IITs are not going to dogs but on the other hand are only growing in stature. In fact I have been looking at the profiles of many IIT alumni who have passed out in the past 10 years or so and am indeed so happy to see that most of them are so well placed. I find that many of them have had a much more rapid rise in their careers compared to the older generations of IITians and started companies of their own at a much younger average age. In terms of placements more and more companies are queuing up at the IITs for campus recruitment, many of them from abroad and paying very high salaries. Why should this happen unless the IIT graduates are good? These facts should counter the argument about deteriorating standards of students at IITs by our fellow alumnus Mr.Narayanamurthy and others.

Pray, what do you mean by "clone IITs" and "deemed IITs"? and speaking about the new IITs I feel one should appreciate that the older IITs also had gone through their birth pangs in the initial years. I remember that when I joined the Civil Engineering Department at IIT Madras for research in 1969 as one of the two full time scholars in the Soil Mechanics Division, except for one person who had just received his Ph.D., there were none with a Ph.D. in the faculty of this Division. The head of this Division was an Associate Professor and all the rest were lecturers with M.Tech. and registered for Ph.D. One person joined later that year with a Dr.Ing. as Asst.Professor. The labs. of this Division which was offering a M.Tech. programme was only good for UG instruction. Much of the research level lab. facilties were created subsequently. Considerable amount of consultancy work was going on thanks to the HOD with a very competent lab. staff. doing routine soil tests. The position in other Divisions in Civil Engineering was also just okay with a number of lecturers working for their Ph.D. There was German assistance for the Hydraulics and Structural Engg. Divisions. I am sure that the early days of all the other older IITs must have been more or less the same. Stories from the early batches of students from IIT Kharagpur talk about so many hardships faced by them, which has stood them in good stead for the rest of their lives.

However, look at the new IITs, their faculty and facilties. Some of them have AC class rooms fitted with multi media projectors.Many of the faculty use PPTs for their lectures. Look at the scholars and other visitors they are getting from all over. Look at the collaborations they have with other global institutions. Look at the research student - faculty ratios of some of these new IITs. And six of them are just over three years old and two others just over two years old. True, most of them are operating out of temporary premises. IIT Kharagpur started from a jail building!! I feel that all of us should be proud of these new IITs and try and help in whatever way we can rather than pull down the morale of the fellow IITians passing out of these IITs this year, and of the young faculty and the Directors who are trying to do a good job in spite of so many problems.

Let us not all the time talk of our own good days and how things are now going to dogs everywhere!! Let us give hope to the youngsters and let us do whatever is possible to help the IITs and the IIT system. Regarding the scrapping of IIT-JEE if the IITs have no issues with the same, I do not know what we, as alumni, would be able to do. We must also note that many of the Directors of the IITs and many of the faculty of the IITs are themselves IIT alumni. Our worry is about brand IIT getting diluted but that should be their worry as well. Indeed, the Directors and faculty of IITs should be more concerned if they are going to get poorer quality of students to teach because of the new procedure for admission coming in replacing the IIT-JEE !

RB

____________________________
From: Ram Krishnaswamy
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:57 AM

Akshat I feel the same way you do. In fact I am extremely angry to see IITs go to the dogs. MMJ started stabbing IITs and clone IITs by Creating Deemed IITs, Arjun Singh added reservation to IITs and Now Kapil Sibal has spawned a dozen new IITs without any infrastructure and now is scrapping JEE which to me is the last nail in the IIT Coffin.

So what use is PanIIT as an Organisation is my question….???
______________________________
From: Purnima Gupta - IITR
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 21:39:28 -0500 (EST)

IITs are not going to dogs. They are going to our successors. Our predecessors did their jobs and established IITs. We did our jobs. Let us not underestimate the future.
purnimag
___________________________
From: akshat shankar
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2012 07:36:07 +0530

[Attachment(s) from akshat shankar included below]

1) Isn't it true that the prestige of IITs has decreased substantially in past few years
2) Isn't it true that the autonomy of IITs has been undermined where most of the big policy decisions are dictated by the minister.
3) Isn't it true that the reservation for students was forced on IITs which also led to increase in number of seats. The Teacher Student ratio has worsened to alarming levels.
4) Isn't it true that Arjun Singh pushed for reservation in Faculty which can have disastrous consequences for our institute.
5) Isn't it true that 7 new IITs were opened before having proper infrastructure. In fact till 2 years after the commencement, it was not clear which city would IIT Rajasthan be situated in!
And the List goes on...

Importantly,isn't it true that we are not being given an opportunity of a discussion. If the change is even arguably good, it should be debated.

I am attaching the photograph of IIT Delhi when Kapil Sibal visited yesterday. Students were prevented to enter the Golden Jubilee celebrations of their own institute as they feared that someone may ask a tough question to Sibal. Some who sneaked in, were shown the door when they stood up to speak. People were distributing a discussion document outside the function but all that material was snatched by the police. The whole area resembled like a curfew region of Srinagar or AnantNag. (see the photograph) My simple question is why and what they are afraid of!

We may have different opinions on many issues related to IITs but can't we all alumni agree that the Autonomy of IITs should be preserved! Future is not a gift which falls from heaven, its a result of our actions in present..its the time for us to rise and act.

Regards,
Akshat

PS: It should be remembered that 60 years back Thomson College (now known as IIT Roorkee) was one of the best institutes in Asia. Its autonomy was snatched and it was made a state university under Uttar Pradesh Government. Even 10 years after regaining autonomy, Roorkee still lags behind peer IITs and its not even a pale shadow of its glorious days. If we allow such things to happen, even the present IITs would meet the same fate.

_____________________________
From: "Rajeev Kumar, IIT KGP"
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:37:19 +0530

Who is responsible for this mess?

Kindly remember funding is not an issue at all..
________________________________________
From: Deepak Mirza - IITD
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:30:45 +0530

Folks,

While the data and thoughts here are respect worthy as is the debate on these very many issues, it may be best to put in all we have NOW to stop the DISASTROUS change in the entrance-to-IIT process.

Yes, we could improve on it LATER … yet, for now, the guaranteed to cause cheating /misuse methods suggested must be dropped at all cost.

That’s what the IIT Staff , Alumni and Students must collectively aim for.

The guaranteed drop in Quality in one more very important set of Institutions in India, must be stemmed now,

Anyone willing to act on this specific task ???????

Deepak
____________________________
From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 02:37:08 -0800 (PST)

(Deepak) No one is going to listen to the alumni on this subject if the Directors and the Senates of all the IITs agree to the change in the admission procedure.______________________________________

From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:49:33 +1100

Deepak, why don't you start with IIT Alumni who drafted Pancha Ratna and presented it to the President and HRD as if it was the voice of all 175000 odd Alumni.
If you have not read Pancha Ratna then please do then you will know what I am talking about. We have to thank these extraordinary set of self appointed IITians for recommending a common exam nationally setting fire to IITJEE. We also have alumni like Purnima who endorse HRD move. I do not believe she sat for IIT JEE. If she did she would not have said what she has said.
Rambo
______________________________________

From: Ravikumar Bhaskaran IITKgp
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:23:36 -0800 (PST)

(in response to Akshaat)

I. There are a couple of issues raised below which needs a debate.

How does one say that the prestige of the IITs have decreased substantially in the past few years?
How many of the older IITs have been opened after creating all the infrastructure? Indeed, how many of the Institutions or organizations created after creating all the infrastructure?

II. If there is a difficulty in finding out where IIT Rajasthan is located I do not think that it is fair to blame the Minister for HRD ? Surely the Minister or the Government does not interfere with any Institute creating its own website with all necessary particulars of their Institutes, its location etc.?

IIT. I wonder why they thought of calling the same as IIT Rajasthan rather than as IIT Jodhpur. All other IITs are described in terms of the city where they are located, though after the name change of the cities concerned IIT Madras and IIT Bombay, located in Chennai and Mumbai respectively still retain their old names as in the IIT Act.

The interesting point is that as far as I can see from the web ( http://www.academics-india.com/Institute%20of%20Technology%20Bill%202010.pdf ), the IIT Amendment Act which was under consideration by the Lok Sabha has named this IIT as Indian Institute of Technology Jodhpur as amendments to Section 2 and Section 3 of the Principal Act though somewhere down below the same, there is a mention about insertion of Sub-clauses (viii) after Clause (j) where the Institute has been described as Indian Institute of Technology Rajasthan. But IIT Ropar has also been described as Indian Institute of Technology Punjab at sub-clause (xi) at the same place.

Ashok Kalbagh may like to throw some light on the last mentioned point and how exactly does the amended IIT Act describe this Institute, whether as Indian Institute of Technology Rajasthan or Indian Institute of Technology Jodhpur.

-RB