> In, specifically those who passed out after 1982
> It is possible that the trends indicated are possibly due to
> many more opportunities that the youth of today have.
There is another factor that can explain the above positive trends along
with the 'negative' trend of increasing number of students having problems
- the much larger numbers going through the IITs today.
will what IITs expected of the 2000 then be achieved by the 10000 today?
points out, the top fellows of today are as good or better than the top
fellows of then. These are the ones who will get into IIT no matter what
kind of JEE is put out.
> In many ways JEE Coaching schools are doing precisely what IITs have
> done the last 50 years. Select the best, the cream of the cream to study
> at IITs and feed American Universities superb Raw material for PG
> Studies. JEE Coaching schools also way pick the best and coach them to
> succeed in the entrance exam.
There are different kinds of coaching schools and they dont do as above. I
will give some specific examples. Ramaiah's in Hyderabad conducts an
entrance test - about 10,000 students take the test and about 200 are
admitted to the coaching program. This is about as selective as the JEE
itself (2% approx) and we should therefore not be surprised that almost
all the 200 end up successful in JEE. This is one model. At the other
extreme, we have another model where anyone who pays up is enrolled. Some
programs enroll 20000 or 25000 and then boast that they send 400 or 500 to
IITs (the same 2% at work).
> The only thing is that we need to think of other methods to keep the
> technology savvy Generation Y motivated while at the IITs. They seem to
> do well after leaving IIT.
Which is really the crux, yes. They do well, but do well in areas that have nothing to do with the program they go through at the IITs. This is what I meant by saying what worked with 200 does not work with 5000 - their interests are different and they do very well in life with those interests and their commitment to those interests.
including a fair share of management courses, but our senate did not pass this.
Before that I was also under the impression that those enterd IIT by coaching centres,specially from Andhra side,were not able to cope up in IIT or other future opportunities. wrong I was!
Those who entered with creditable all India Ranks were the toppers in IIT course also - after 4 years of hard work . I am sure IIT is not in the pattern of coaching centre!! They have some stuff for sure.
> what is the intake in 2012 to IITs considering we have as many as
> sixteen or seventeen iits.
Intake for 2012 will be known only about the time JEE results are
announced, end of April or early May. For 2011, intake was about 9600
including 15 IITs (7 old plus 8 new), IT-BHU (which is to become an IIT as
part of the IIT amendmend act that is pending in Parliament) and ISM,
From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM
From: "Digendra Singh Rathore, IIT Roorkee" <
- School education : The main culprit in deteriorating the quality of students. I was in one of the decent CBSE schools in Udaipur (Rajasthan) which represents the majority of CBSE schools in India, (not every school is DPS kind and not every city is Delhi or Mumbai). When I passed class 12th, I was knowledge level was not as good to explain someone about simple Newton Laws of Motion, the momentum conservation, simple concepts in organic and inorganic chemistry, I knew seriously nothing about physical chemistry, salt analysis, etc. My knowledge in Maths was limited to the solved examples of R.D. Sharma (book that CBSE schools prescribe in class 11th and 12th). Still I managed to pass 12th with 88% marks. Now I wonder how did I do that, but it was simple. Just solve last 10 years question papers, board question paper will not come out of it. Have good impression on teachers, you will get 30 marks (out of 30) in the external practical exams. This much is sufficient to lend you 80% above in class 12th.
The condition in CBSE is far better, in state boards its even worse. My sister just finished yesterday with her class 12th exams in Madhya Pradesh Board. Before the exams, MP Board issued a set of four sample papers and told that board exam will contain questions similar to these and surprisingly in the board exam a decent no. of questions were the same as given in that sample paper. Apart from this, my sister's examination center was her own school, invigilator were her own teachers, who during the examination solved questions for the students. This is situation in a city like INDORE. Move to smaller places, the situation is even worse.
- Coaching Institutes : I went to KOTA and for the very first time heard the name of books such as Physics by H.C. Verma, Resnik Halliday, Chemistry by J.D. Lee, I.L. Finar. Me and my friends in Kota read from the books which our school teachers might not have even heard of. In the classroom, teacher taught all the theory in full detail, but only once (in a class of 120 students you cannot expect him to repeat anything for even 10% students, because majority of the students understood the concepts as everyone used to do self study) Then we practised a lot, we used to solve questions based on the theory we learned. In one year, a student on an average solves more than 3000 different types of questions in each subject. And we have realized that those who attended lectures only and did not do self study or practice more questions had very little knowledge of the subjects (even if they were regular in Coaching lectures).
- Everyone knows "Practice makes a man perfect". The success rate in JEE of those students who attended coaching is higher than those who did not, is only because the later only depends upon school learning. Just take a student, ask him to study from books like HC Verma, Resnik Haliday, IL Finar, JD Lee, etc. and ask him to solve 3000 different kinds of question in each subject, Ask him to study for more than 10 hours a day continuously for one year, ask him never to watch TV, go to any function, go to market for shopping, etc. etc... for one year continuously. Then he may crack JEE if he gets a good guidance at home (by parents or school teachers) to clear his doubts in PCM of JEE level.
I can say proudly that after my 1 year coaching in KOTA I know more than my school teachers and could teach students better than them. In coaching, there are thousands who work hard towards the same goal, so some get inspired, some get the feeling of competition, whatever maybe the driving force, ultimately ends in their tireless efforts towards cracking JEE. JEE coachings only teaches a student about how to make efforts, and I think, encouraging to make efforts does not deteriorate quality of student, or rather quality of a person.
Also the coaching teachers not only taught PCM but they also encourage and empower the students. In most of the coaching classes you would see teachers taking a sessions on positive thinking, how to achieve success, etc etc.. once in a month. To some extent many teachers in Coaching also build morale of the students. The teacher in coaching are committed to two things : success of its students or to some extent salary. (Salary again being directly proportional to the popularity and success rate of a teacher which ultimately depends upon his teaching style and success rate of his students). So a teacher gives every effort to empower his students morally, ethically and in knowledge. If a teacher is doing only what he is supposed to do, I think he is not deteriorating the quality of students. Also, if the teaching quality at school level had been competent enough, there would be no need of any coaching. But majority of the school teachers have other commitments. Moreover their knowledge is limited to the NCERT textbooks. You cannot trust on them for your JEE.
- Education in IIT : My experiences are limited to IIT Roorkee only but no wonder if the situation is more or less same in every IIT or NIT. Alumni and Profs in IITs have lot of expectations from the new IIT entrants but do they even realise what we people expect from IITs. After clearing JEE in 2009, I took Mechanical Engineering and my interest developed because of its name "Mechanical" and whatever Discovery channel showed about Mechanical Engineering (otherwise nothing in India has the ability to develop attraction of a class 12th student towards Mechanical Engineering). All my expectations from Mechanical Engineering died in the first semester. Out of the 13 courses that I studied in my first year, only four were from mechanical dept and the rest were from biotechnology, physics (theory of relativity & everything annoying), chemistry, electronics, etc.
- Moreover the teachers fall very short of expectations (only a few committed ones are exception). Some people say that those who come from coaching, love spoon feeding and expect more from our teachers in IITs. Now, if good teaching and guidance is spoon feeding then I think everyone in this world seeks spoon feeding in every aspect of his life because we all seek some kind of guidance in our business, financial, social, spiritual and academic interests.
And why only judge student quality on the basis of their performance in academics. This coaching born generation has possess more entrepreneurial skills, risk taking abilities, have lesser no. of graduates who run to US and settle there, they find more interest in India and its welfare, they have the guts to challenge the systems, they work for the change they want to see, they questions illogical traditions and much more. The non coaching-going generation also had some brilliant personalities but this generation has more percentage of people with brilliant qualities. This proves that quality of a student has a very little contribution from coaching classes.
- In KOTA, every year 50,000 students attend JEE coaching who are given more or less same treatment in teaching, but just less than 5000 are able to clear JEE. This proves that those who have quality and who deserve can only crack JEE irrespective of the coaching.
> expect from IIT and its teachers.
How valid is this point? IITs have some expectations of students and is it
justified for students to come in expecting something else?
To use a metaphor, we are the best apple sellers in the market, let us
say. The market has apple sellers, orange sellers etc etc (yeah and many
who make a lot of money selling lemons). So happens, that most orange
sellers are lousy, lets say. Just because we happen to be the best apple
sellers, what do we do when someone wants to buy oranges from us? We know
very little about oranges, we dont sell them. The buyer knows that we sell
apples, but comes to us anyway with no interest in apples and having some
vague notion of interest in oranges.
Would we be as good at it as we are/were at apples? There still is enough
market for apples, but the apple seeking customers are being crowded out
by the orange seekers. Should we quit apples and oranges which seem to
have the customers confused and start dealing in pomogranates and
appanges and oraples?
- Educate the parents. Stop them to force the children to prepare for IIT-JEE. Stop parent's desire to get his child in an IIT and for this you have to hide the huge pay package and other success stories of IIT graduates and deteriorate the image of IITs as the best engineering institutes in India.
- Provide quality education and all round development to the students at the school level. Make efforts to develop such a atmosphere in school which enables a student to find the meaning of, differentiate among and develop interest in engineering, commerce, economics, research, arts, journalism, literature, medical and lot other fields of interests. For this the entire teaching methodology and schooling system has to undergo big changes.
- Thinking of middle class parents and their expectations from their children. (still all want their children to get into IIT)
- The level of competition owing to the large population (in this case the no. of IIT JEE aspirants)
- The sincere attitude of giving hundred percent efforts, once determined. World knows that Indians are hardworking. ( In this case the hours of study and dedication and hence the stress level of the the students due to the entrance exam preparation, still the students will remain engaged in ISEET and cramming the school syllabus)
- Coaching classes. They will continue to flourish according to the level of the competition in entrance examinations like in JEE, Medical Entrance, IAS preparation, bank PO, PSC, etc etc...
- It will increase the stress level of students. Earlier their only aim was to get good rank in JEE (as everyone can score 60% marks in 12th) But now they have two aims : Get good rank in ISEET and Get high percentage in class 12th. They will have the stress of efficiently managing their efforts to achieve two goals.
- It will encourage more coaching classes. Till now we have only PCM, then we will have English, C++, Physical Education, etc.. as well. The small tuition centers will also transform into big coaching centers for these subjects and will charge heavy fees.
- Student quality will further deteriorate because the no. of parents wanting their child to enter into IITs would not change and hence the same no. of forced students will enter IITs. But the condition would be worse bcoz the students will enter with lower level of understanding and knowledge as ISEET level will be designed to entertain students from all the boards.
- It will encourage corruption in the noble sector of Education. More school - coaching collaborations which will assure more practical marks for the students enrolled in the partner schools and also heavy school fees. There is only one way to get a good rank in JEE and that is hard work and performance in JEE. But getting good percentage in class 12th boards may have various other corrupt ways.
- Suppose a student devotes 10 hours to study PCM for his JEE preparation. Now in ISEET, he will devote 8 hours for JEE and 2 hours for school. Now compare the productivity of these two hours in two cases. In the earlier case, 2 hours would yield understanding of a good concept in PCM (may be extra to what is required) but in the later case, during his 2 hours he will read the NCERT, solve last year's question papers. Now compare the knowledge acquired in those 2 hours. In the earlier case the knowledge acquired would help in building his interest towards any particular subject or engineering branch which he may pursue during his B.Tech. while the 2 hours devoted to school study would end up in improving his 12th percentage only, nothing more can be expected.
- If only the entrance examination pattern would change, we can expect to have some positive results but giving the 40% weightage to class 12th exam will definitely ruin the IIT system.
- If JEE preparation creates a huge stress level then why more students do suicide in IITs as compared to while preparing for JEE. Sir cracking JEE after such hard work is a lifetime experience. It gives a confidence to face any tough situation in life. Whenever there is any tough task in front of us and someone raises doubt on our abilities, our counter statement is "Abe, JEE nikal liya hai yaar, ye to kar hi lenge"
From: Chandra Jain
-Based on proposed ISEET pattern
-An IIT Alumni Body (coaching institute)
If JEE isn't scrapped, they(iit alumni) will lose money they spend on coming up with this ad.
Do you mean that scrapping is certain then?
What I was trying to convey is, irrespective of what some of us wish, (someone likes the good old JEE or someone prefers sharing bed with the new one(ISEET)), these events/changes will throw new financial opportunities for coaching institutes(read: hungry pack of wolves) and also give them perfect excuses to raise the existing exorbitant fees. :)
♎ And most importantly, many of these wolves are iitians ☺ (with reference to the ad I had attached) ♎ (and they are lovin' it)
Also, We are discussing JEE way too much, currently its just a MCQ based exam one can pass by selecting B's and C's.
The Pan-iitian stance on this is a fractured mandate (which is good, democracy) and One can't demonize a child which hasn't been born, who knows ISEET might be better than JEE?
Personally, whatever crap the HRD ministry throws, the ones on the top in ISEET will become IITians, and that's ok by me. (Plus IIT's will mostly have the liberty to conduct an additional exam/ screening process, so we are looking at old JEE pattern (screening plus mains type))
Oh, really, just randomly tick B's and C's and one would pass (yeah, never
mind the we are discussing JEE too much, that part is probably true)?
passing marks as 25%, less than 10% of candidates have your above kind of
wisdom and mange to get a "passing" score. About 25% of candidates score
zero or negative.
:) I was purely taking a dig at the "new" MCQ based exam, sarcastically. I had to clear both mains and screening(mcq) to get into :)