FIITJEE, the country's first corporatized institute for IIT-JEE and other Engineering Entrance Exams, on Monday voiced concern over the proposed move from Ministry of Human Resource Development to merge the IITJEE and AIEEE Entrance Exams and feel that it could lower the quality of prestigious IIT's.
At a press conference here to discussed the impact of this move on the students and their future RL Trikha, the Director and HOD of Distance education, FIITJEE Limited and C.V.Kalyan Kumar the director of FIITJEE limited spoke at length on the topic “Change of assessing students in school, based on CCE and the current proposal of merging all National Engineering Exams- IIT-JEE and AIEEE with inclusion of Boards Exam. It is a BOON or a BANE?”
According to Trikha, “JEE was a major factor that gave IIT's the exclusivity that they command today. A student preparing for JEE prepared for the test with the sole purpose of entering IIT and not a regional engineering college. “School Boards like CBSE, ICSE are easier to score than compared to states boards. This is unfair to students appearing for state boards compared to CBSE. States like Bihar, the state board awards lower marks than the national boards”.
“A better option would be to have multiple rounds of screening tests, rather than giving 40% weight-age to 12th std results. This decision will lower the standards of IIT, already IIT's have been criticized for lack of quality, this decision may be a big blow, as we do not know what change will follow in the opening and closing ranks of IIT's. There is also a need for uniform syllabus, since different boards have different marking system, which needs to be standardized. And lastly, the student will face immense pressure as there's a single exam to make it or break it” he said.
In case, if everything falls in place, by 2013 there shall be a Common for all Government Engineering Colleges. The CET scores will also be applicable to those states who currently accept AIEEE scores for entrance in their respective regional colleges.
HRD Ministry expects more states to follow the suit. With the decision another significant change is that along with the test scores, students 12th std marks will have 40% weight-age. However, the proposal for merged examination has faced flak by the large IIT students community.
During the conference, C.V Kalyan also shared future expansion plans of FIITJEE. According to him, he said “We are aiming to provide a platform to students for truly global career, yet grounding them in solid Indian value systems”. When asked about the next for FIITJEE in the coming years, Trikha said “Vision without action is just a dream; action without vision is simply waste of time, and action with vision only makes a positive difference in anything you do”.
He also said “We will keep marching on with our core values and keep demonstrating next levels of excellence with consistency to remain a leader in this industry and contribute to society through education at all levels. However, we also have many roaring education-oriented through a series of rapid expansion programs for next 2 years in Indian and Abroad.
What do you think so? How would you like to express it? As a BOON or a BANE?
( Basab) Decisions cannot be taken based on any particular body (like classes) benefit.
Now students will probably attend two classes - one for board another for ISEET because requirements are different plus attend college - their burden will increase.
A student who falls ill on that exam day will suffer one year ??
How will the admissions take place if any state board delays it result for some reason
To admit so many students will the IITs be able to set such a paper - The range of marks for students admitted will be very large may be some admissions will take place with some students getting negative marks or 0 marks (in Maths) becasue we know the paper is tough
Lot of thinking needs to be done before this really gets implemented
From: Kompella Kamesh - IIT-
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 22:25:15 -0800
IITs get to decide the JEE paper, right?
If they are not able to stay one step ahead of the coaching institutes, does it not speak volumes about the lack of nimbleness on part of the IITs?
There will always be people attempting to figure out the system. IIT papers are now predictable, that's what coaching institutes are telling us.
JEE by any other name is still doomed.
From: Satyajit Roy IIT KGP
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:12:19 -0500
This coaching institute blame is just a false flag. Coaching institutes will adapt ...
The real story is imposition of multiple choice to replace the "short answer problems", which had been the hallmark of the JEE. Falling into the SAT structure is what is the the real goal of the NWO ... :)
From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM
I agree. Perhaps HRD should look at the Option of Converting JEE Coaching schools into accredited High Schools teaching all the subjects..
During our times Private colleges like Loyola and Vivekananda college in Chennai had an edge over other schools only because they got the cream of the students in the state as well as had better teachers..meaning they were kind of coaching schools helping their students perform better at IIT entrance exams.
Unfortunately the Ramasamy committee and the Kakodkar committee created reports that HRD wanted, to decimate IITs.
Murli Manohar Joshi dug at the foundations of IITs. Way back in 2002. Arjun Singh continued the job and kept digging and Kapil Sibal came and toppled IITs for good.
The Nation should build statues for all these mindless politicians on every campus so the people remember.
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:10:30
I too agree, Rambo.
There is the Tripos exam in the UK and the entrance exams for the Grandes Ecoles in France. No one is clamoring to lower the standards of these exams. They cherish the traditions of these exams.
It is only in India that politicians who cannot think beyond the next election go out of their way to denigrate and trample upon all that is excellent.
Maha Kavi Bharathi has said "Nalladhor Veenai seidhe adhai nalam keda puzhudiyil erivadhundo" (Do we make a beautiful veena and throw it in the dust?) and the actions of these people would make him weep.
Are you in India or the US? Do you know if it is possible to bring up a Public Interest Litigation in India against the proposed changes to the JEE format? Since the future of India's engineering education is at stake, it seems to me that it would be in the public interest to bring up such a suit.
From: Ashish Bhatia
Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:19:24 -0800
"These coaching institutions prepare rote learners "
I do not understand why people make this implicit assumption. Any evidence to substantiate it?
From: Ram Krishnaswamy-IITM
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:34:44 +1100
Basab, We can blame coaching institutions all we want. The truth is that People in charge of IIT JEE are the real culprits because they made the JEE tougher and tougher in a sadistic way and the exams became so tough that no high school leaver could score well unless he took extra coaching outside school hours…
So let us accept that IITs created the monster called JEE Coaching schools.. There was a huge demand for coaching schools allowing many such schools to mushroom all over the nation..
It was IIT JEE people who switched to multiple choice questions as opposed to allowing students to solve problems on paper where the workings showed the quality of students grasp of knowledge..
When it comes to quality of teachers in Coaching schools and IITs teaching maths, physics and chemistry, many recent graduates have confirmed that IIT Staff are of woefully lower standard.
I also believe that IITs died the day Kapil Sibal created 16 IITs overnight. Believe we should all save our energies and breath and focus on something more worthwhile than IIT JEE and Aakash.
This is my personal opinion. No one needs to agree or disagree
From: Monu Abraham
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:22:51 +0000
"When it comes to quality of teachers in Coaching schools and IITs teaching maths, physics and chemistry, many recent graduates have confirmed that IIT Staff are of woefully lower standard. "
I have reproduced above a small porrtion of the string of messages.
This can be explained simply by what we pay IIT staff - restricted by Govt payscales and a pittance compared to what the private coaching schools can afford to pay their teachers.
From: BasabGhosh IIT
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:02:47 +0530
( Ram ) The coaching institutions may not want that. As an acredited high school, they won't be able to charge the astronomical fees that they charge as coaching institutions.
Contrary to the general belief that opening 16 IITs have destroyed the IIT value, I think this will actually reduce the pressure on aspiring students. Considering the increase in number of eligible students now with respect to 1960s, it is impossible to continue with only 5 IITs (or 7, if you take Roorkee and BHU-IT). The increase in the number of seats will also create opportunities for students who missed the bus for fraction of percntages. Then hopefully a sizeable number will remain in their chosen profession rather than becoming investment bankers!
From: Sriram IITM
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:54:04 +0530 (IST)
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Ram Krishnaswamy wrote:
> "IT was IIT JEE people who switched to multiple choice questions as opposed to allowing students to solve problems on paper where the workings showed the quality of students grasp of knowledge.. When it comes to quality of teachers in Coaching schools and IITs teaching maths, physics and chemistry, many recent graduates have confirmed that IIT Staff are of woefully lower standard."<
Oh goody, time to counter Rambo's Ravings. :-)
Actually, above two issues are related (and thus I launch into my long story).
I would not say that IIT teachers of Maths, Physics or Chemistry are of woefully lower standard. First of all, come on, you expect a recent graduate to be a good judge of this? Also, the two are on different missions - the JEE coach has a very well specified goal whereas the IIT faculty member has a more diffuse goal, so it is not fair to compare the two.
In the good old days, IIT faculty members in the Maths, Physics and Chemistry departments were mostly expected to play the role of service providers, teaching all the "service" courses required in the the BTech curricula. These departments have now grown into being research centres on their own, much like the Engineering departments, so these faculty members are no longer generally inclined towards putting their effort into teaching BTech service courses.
This also means that they are less inclined to put their effort into grading JEE scripts.
In the good olds days some 40 or 50 thousand wrote the JEE, so all the scripts could be hand graded.
In 2000, a screening test was introduced, as the JEE applicant numbers was crossing 100,000 and hand grading was becoming a monumental task.
The multiple choice screening test enabled us to handle the larger numbers and the final hand graded test was limited to only the top 20 or 30 thousand from the screening test.
By 2005, we had enough data to look at performance of applicants in the screening test and the final hand graded test. The correlation was very high - those who did well in the screening test were the ones who were doing well in the hand graded final test. So, the question, why bother with the final hand graded exam at all?
And hence, from 2006, the former multiple choice screening test was expanded into the only test. We realize now that the hand graded test was perhaps an important component and the student's preparation for it was what prepared them for IIT. Now, they get in without their skills at this type of long written test being examined.
Is there some way to go back to that?
Given the numbers, there is no way IITs can handle everyone taking on the long test. One of the ideas floating around is to use the XII marks and/or a multiple choice test to screen applicants and use an old fashioned hand graded final exam to decide admissions.
But, will this work? With today's gen X or gen Y or gen Z or whatever with the focus on instant gratification, will we find enough takers for the old fashioned exam and the old fashioned teaching and learning that went with it?
And by takers, I mean both students and faculty ...